Friday, October 15, 2010

Rama lived 7000 years ago.



Previous posts:-

When was Rama born?

Rama’s birth date.




Planetary combination at the time of birth of Rama is given in Valmeeki Ramayana.
Based on that, it is possible to locate the time period.
The two researchers Dr Vartak and Dr Bhatnagar have used these details from Ramayana to arrive at the date. But they have differed by 2000 years. The reason is that they have not used the same set of events related years.


Of the two, the date by Dr Bhatnagar can be identified in the astrology software. Dr Bhatnagar says that the birth date of Rama was January 10th, 5114 BC.
But in the Jhora software, the planetary configuration falls on 9th January, 5114 BC.


Valmeeki says that 5 planets, namely Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus were exalted at that time. His exact version as follows:-


“On completion of the ritual six seasons have passed by and then in the twelfth month, on the ninth day of chaitra month [April-May,] when the presiding deity of ruling star of the day is Aditi, where the ruling star of day is punarvasu, the asterism is in the ascendant, and when five of the nine planets viz., Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and Venus are at their highest position, when Jupiter with Moon is ascendant in Cancer, and when day is advancing, then Queen Kausalya gave birth to a son with all the divine attributes like lotus-red eyes, lengthy arms, roseate lips, voice like drumbeat, and who took birth to delight the Ikshwaku dynasty, who is adored by all the worlds, and who is the greatly blessed epitome of Vishnu, namely Rama. [1-18-8, 9, 10, 11]”


In the astrology software that I use all these match perfectly on 9th January with an exception. Saturn had gone to the next sign of Scorpio just by a degree and was in retrogression. By retrogression a planet is deemed to be in the previous sign. Therefore Saturn can be said to be in Libra, its sign of exaltation, as told in Ramayana. For such a distant time, the software may not be accurate and astronomical software may give us the exact position.

But what is noticed is that the same planetary configuration of Rama’s birth day did take place in BC 5114.

Given below is the sky map as per the astrology software that I use.
Moon is in punarvasu in Cancer on 9th
The nodes have changed from the traditional account. Valmeeki does not mention the position of nodes. Traditionally Ketu is put in the 12th house (Gemini) in Rama’s horoscope indicating absence if Punar janma. 

Rama's birth date:-





I wish some scholars like Dr Narahari Achar or Dr Balakrishnan to take up the details of Ramayana and establish the time period using their astronomy software.


This date must go well with other dates of Rama’s life.
For instance just before the time of proposed coronation, it is deduced that a solar eclipse occurred in the birth star of Dasaratha. His birth star is not noted in Valmeeki Ramayana. But using the inputs given by Dasaratha himself on the kind of planetary affliction to his birth star, it is deduced that his birth star was either Aswini or Revathy. My article on this is pending publication in a magazine and hence I am not writing here the details of how I deduced it. I will upload it in my scribd once it is published.

The year of the proposed coronation was BC 5089. 





This puts Rama;s age at that time at 25 years. Dr Bhatnagar had taken this age at the time of coronation whereas Dr Vartak has taken Rama’s age as 17!

This is the major issue where he differed and therefore his calculation of Rama’s time differed from Dr Bhatnagar’s

Let us see why such a difference in interpretation had crept in.

Looking at the places where the age is mentioned, Kausalya grieves on hearing the aborted coronation saying that she has waited for 17 years since the birth of Rama to see him rule.

She says,

“dasha sapta ca varSaaNi tava jaatasya raaghava |”(2-20-45)

The “jatasya” is literally taken as from the time of birth.

If we assume that Rama was 17 years of age when he was about to be crowned, the question comes when he was married.

At 2 places Sita says that she was happily married for 12 years before the coronation was fixed. She says this first to Ravana who came in disguise to deceive her in Aranya khandam.

uSitvaa dvaa dasha samaaH ikshvaakuuNaam niveshane |

bhu.njaanaa maanuSaan bhogaan sarva kaama samR^iddhinii || 3-47-4

("On residing in the residence of Ikshvaku-s in Ayodhya for twelve years, I was in sumptuosity of all cherishes while relishing all humanly prosperities. [3-47-4])

tatra trayo dashe varSe raaja ama.ntryata prabhuH |
abhiSecayitum raamam sameto raaja man.htribhiH || 3-47-5
("In the thirteenth year the lordly king Dasharatha deliberated together with his imperial ministers to anoint Rama as Crown Prince of Ayodhya. [3-47-5])


Sita gives the age of herself and Rama in clear terms while speaking to Ravana :-

mama bhartaa mahaatejaa vayasaa pa.nca vi.mshakaH || 3-47-10
aSTaa dasha hi var.hSaaNi mama janmani gaNyate |
("My great-resplendent husband was of twenty-five years of age at that time, and to me eighteen years are reckoned up from my birth. [3-47-10b, 11a])
Sita was 18 while Rama was 25 at the time of proposed coronation.


Sita tells the same thing to Hanuman in Sundhara Khandam as follows:-
samaa dvaadasha tatra aham raaghavasya niveshane || 5-33-17
bhunjaanaa maanuShaan bhogaan sarva kaama samR^iddhinii |

("I stayed in Rama's house there for twelve years, enjoying the worldly pleasures belonging to human kind and fulfilling all my desires.")

tataH trayodashe varShe raajyena ikShvaaku nandanam || 5-33-18
abhiShecayitum raajaa sa upaadhyaayaH pracakrame |

("Thereafter, in the thirteenth year, King Dasaratha along with his preceptors started to perform anointment of the kingdom to Rama, a celebrity of Ikshvaku dynasty.")

Thus it is clear that Rama and Sita were married for 12 years before coronation was planned and the age gap between them was 7 years.

Ignoring these details which were clearly told in later chapters, we can not say that Kausalya meant that Rama was 17 years when he was about to be crowned.

If so when was he married. If we deduct 12 years of togetherness of Rama and Sita and a couple, then it comes to 5 years as the age of Rama at the time of marriage. 


But then why did Kausalya make such a statement?

The 'jaatasya' can be about the upanayanam of Rama. There is no exact mention of the time of upanayanam of Rama in Valmeeki Ramayana. It is all mentioned in a single verse in the chapter on Rama's birth (V.R.1-18-24).

Since astrology has been very much part of life in those days, Rama's upanayanam could not have taken place before 8 years.

8 year period is a crucial period because this constitutes 'baalarishta ' period. Baalaarishtam means death before 8 years.

The first 4 years including the period in the womb is influenced by the mother's destiny (according to astrology). The next 4 years by father's destiny. The child's destiny starts to work on it only after 8 years. The harm to the child in the first 8 years is therefore considered to be the effect of parents’ destiny. The child’s own destiny starts controlling the child from 8th year onwards. Therefore the child is left under complete protection for the first 8 years after which the child is allowed to move out of the mother or home. The age of Uapnayana at that year has been determined on this basis only. 

For Kshariyas, the upanayanam year is the 9th year. The reason to extent the age  that the child is physically little capable to take up the kshatriya related education of military practice.


For vaishyas, the upanayanam comes later than the kshatriyas as they have to be trained in communication skills etc which are needed for their profession. 

Rama could have had his upanayanam at his 8th or 9th year.
Upon upanayanam, the child physically leaves the mother (after maathru bhojanam ceremony before the start of the upanayanam ceremony.)
From then onwards, the child is an individual, taking care of himself.

It is possible to assume that Kausalya meant this. She waited for 17 years for Rama's coronation after Rama had his initiation at the age of 8. This means 8+17=25


The age of Rama at the time of marriage can be known from other sources in Valmeeki Ramayana. 

From Sita’ narration of her and Rama’s age and number of years she spent with him, it is known that Rama was 13 years and Sita was 6 years when they were married. She had spent most of their time in Ayodhya as a little girl.
Looking at corroboratory verses in Ramayana, Dasaratha laments that Rama was not even 16 years when sage Vishwamitra wanted to take Rama to the forest to protect the yajnas.


uuna SoDasha varSo me raamo raajiiva lochanaH |
na yuddha yogyataam asya pashyaami saha raaxasaiH || 1-20-2

("Less than sixteen years of age is my lotus-eyed Rama, and I see no warring aptitude to him with the demons. [1-20-2])

Why the mention of 16?

Again as per astrology 16 is a crucial year.

The life span of man is divided into 3, alpaayusu (below 32), madhyaayusu (between 32 and 72) and dheergayusu (between 72 and 100).

Half of Alpaayusu is 16 years.
By 16 years the child completes his education in Gurukulam and comes back to the father. (The education  may extend upto 24 years)
Here Rama, though a kshathriya by birth, has had vedic teaching (refer Hanuman's description of Rama in sargam 35 of Sundhara khandam) and could have followed the regular learning schedule of a Brahmin.


Dhasharatha might have meant this. Rama was still young not even had crossed the 16 year mark of age which was alpa -alpa ayusu, not even completed his formal education in astra vidya. How could he be expected to battle with rakhshasas?

But the near exact age of Rama at that time can be known from Mareecha’s description to Ravana. Mareecha describes the valour of Rama he encountered at dandaka forests where Rama was brought by Vishwamitra to protect the yajnas.


Mareecha says that Dasaratha told Vishwamitra that Rama was less than 12 years of age.

uuna dvaadasha varSo ayam akR^ita astraH ca raaghavaH || 3-38-6
kaamam tu mama yat sainyam mayaa saha gamiSyati |

( 'This boy Rama is less than twelve years in his age, unproficient in the use of weapons, and if need be, whatever army of mine is there it will march on along with me instead of Rama. [3-38-6b, 7a])

So Rama was 12 or little under 12 when he accompanied Vishwamitra to the forest. It was during those times that he takes part in Sita’ Swayamwar.
He could be 13 when he actually married Sita.


The events must tally with the age of Rama as per astrology. It does for the birth year in BC 5114.

The different planetary positions told at quite a few places can be checked by scientists working on astronomy software. The age of Rama at important events has been explained above.

Krishna lived 5000 years ago.
Rama lived 2000 years before Krishna
That period as Tretha yuga is not the solar yuga of the Siddhnatha.
Let us see more on those issues in the upcoming posts. 





13 comments:

surya said...

Namastay,

Doubt - Matching of planetary position is enough to decide the birth of RAMA? or should there be need to check other factors such as:
1. Presence of Ravana at the same time should be confirmed.
2. Sanskrit being the common language among people.
3. Just 2000 years gap between Rama avatar and Krishna Avatar.
4. If "Rama Rajya" is true, then the possibility of immense negative activities requiring birth of Krishna within just 2000 years seems odd.
5. As interpreted by many that Kaliyuga is lakhs years long...if we are able to go back to Treta Yuga in planetary calculations...maybe the same planetary position is again found, but it will be a hard task I think.

I do not think planetary combination is enough. It is "one of the instruments" to understand Mother Nature or "Leela Vinodam", but not a confirmatory thing.

Anyway, any effort to find out facts about Rama's birth is laudable and the persons you mentioned in the report should be appreciated.

Articles on Ayodya case are really worth reading for any neutral soul.

Sincerely,
NVS Prakasam.

jayasree said...

Thanks for the interest in the topic Mr Surya Prakasam. I will be writing on these questions soon.

But one clarification here. Any particular planetary alignment in the backdrop of specific stars do not repeat in a chathur yuga which is of the duration of 43,20,000 years. Surya Sidhantha goes a step further and states that the planetary alignment that started with all the planets and the nodes at 0 degrees Aries in the beginning of Kalpa meets at the same point only at the beginning of next kalpa. The 8 kinds of motions of the planets have made them not meet at the same formation for crores of years. As such the exact planetary meeting that happened at the time of birth of Rama would not appear for lakhs of years.

As mortals living a short life, we can check with our own life. Leave the planets. Just note down the pancha angas of your date of birth - the day, star, thithi, yoga and karana. You would never find them tally at any of your yearly birth days.

In the case of planets, 5 planets + 2 luminaries + 2 nodes, the meeting point at any given time would not repeat again. In my future post on this issue, I will give you the LCM of the 7 planetary revolutions to show how they do not form the same alignment for 1,28,32,913 years!

That is why identification of the planetary configuration is considered to be valid scientific point. The date of Krishna and Mahabharata have been identified on this basis only.

The date of Rama at BC 5114 almost matches with the astrology software I use. DR Bhatnagar finds it from the astronomy software.

The astrology software I use does not go beyond BC 6000 and therefore I could not check Dr Vartak's date of Rama. However such a configuration can not be identified at that time which is just 2000 years prior to Dr Bhat nagar's time. Moreover I find the date of events he has taken to be wrong - which I have explained in this post. What Dr Vartak could have arrived at was a closer combination and not the exact combination of planets.

To set matters at rest, I expect experts to locate the period of Rama in the astronomy software. An important check point I am giving is the occurrence of solar eclipse in Revathy or Aswini on the 25th year of Rama just prior to Rama's proposed coronation.

surya said...

Namastay,

Thank You for your reply, very informative.

Well...I know I belong to preschool level in these subjects...but still I will explain how I believed or my mind accepted the so called Yugas being lakhs of years. I am getting parts of what I want to say...I will put them in order and leave them for you to check mam.

Sincerely,
NVS Prakasam.

Anonymous said...

Just a doubt. Not arising anything towards your article. Krishna avatar happened 5000+ years ago. As the other brother said, is rama avatar happened 2000 years just before krishna? No. If you see the total yuga calculations, its been morethan 20,000 years ago....definitly not just 7000 yrs. Softwares are made by us. Many softwares having limitations. We can not just depend on that.

jayasree said...

@ anonymous

There are yugas at many levels. Astrology is the best source to understand them. There are many articles written about them in this blog. Like astrology, there are many descriptions for yugas in Mahabharata also which tell about yugas at human life cycle.

If you can read Tamil you may read my Tamil series on 'Thamizhan Dravidana?' whose link is given in the side bar of this blog. I am tracing the time line from Vaivasvatha Manu based on various sources. Software generation of planetary position is just one source. But there are other sources such as inundation maps and under water archeology that tally with the flood that Manu faced. The period of Rama as 7000 years ago exactly fits in that time line.

Also read my article in English in this link and the related links given under that post.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/01/on-yuga-classification-and-what-causes.html

Om Raja said...

It is said that Rama was very tall indeed, about 18 tall...if that's the case, it's hard to believe that he lived only 2000 years before Krishna....I am also inclined to believe that Rama lived about 20000 years ago...the software needs to be checked for accuracy...also some efforts could be made to date the bridge to Lanka.

jayasree said...

@ Om Raja

Read this article and comments thereunder to know the exact info on Rama's height.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2009/07/tall-people-then-and-now.html

jayasree said...

@ Om raja.

There are many articles on Ram Sethu's date posted by me. Please browse by search box.

A scientific assessment of Ram sethu as 7000 yrs old can be read here.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2013/02/ram-setu-man-made-structure-geologist.html

Bharat gyan, DK Hari also has brought out a video on Ram sethu where it is shown that Ram sethu was built 7000 yrs ago. Browse the net / Bharat gyan site for locating that video

Shankar Chaurasia said...

Namastay,

Full Doubtful- If we calculate through Yuga Satayug, Tretayug, Dwaparyug, Kalayug.
Duration of
Kalyug : 432000
Dwaparyug : 864000
Tretayug : 1296000

and Lord Rama was born before Dwaparyug started and it before 5 lack years before Dwaparyug started.
If we will calculate these yuga and we will get Lord Rama was born in 1796000 (Seventeen Lac ninty six thousand) years ago.

jayasree said...

//Lord Rama was born in 1796000 //

Aren't you making Rama a myth by this? Can you prove that mankind existed in our landmass at that time? Can you prove that Ramayana as a rich text came down from that time?

Discerning mind is what is required in dealing with Ithihasas and Puranas. I have written numerous articles in this blogspot. Search and read.

May be you can start with these:-

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2011/01/on-yuga-classification-and-what-causes.html

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2009/07/did-rama-rule-for-11000-years.html

Alankrit Anand said...

Namastay,

Full Doubtful- If we calculate through Yuga Satayug, Tretayug, Dwaparyug, Kaliyug.
Duration of
Kaliyug: 4,32,000
Dwaparyug: 8,64,000
Tretayug: 12,96,000 and Lord Rama was born before Dwaparyug started and it before 5 lack years before Dwaparyug started.
If we will calculate these yuga and we will get Lord Rama was born in 17,96,000 (Seventeen Lac ninty six thousand) years ago. All living creatures created 1,96,90,61,116 years ago.

Alankrit Anand said...

Abhishek
Namastey
Duration of
Kaliyug: 4,32,000 months
Dwaparyug: 8,64,000 months
Tretayug: 12,96,000 months and
Lord Rama was born before Dwaparyug started and it before 5 lack months before Dwaparyug started.
If we will calculate these Yuga and we will get Lord Rama was born in 17,88,000 months= 1,49,000 years ago.

by the will of Rama said...

"//Lord Rama was born in 1796000 //

Aren't you making Rama a myth by this?"

How does Shri Rama become "myth" if he had existed 1.8 million years ago?

"Can you prove that Ramayana as a rich text came down from that time?"

Is it not the Avatara Purushas, who appear every now and then to revive dharma, that would have carried the torch lit by Shri Valmiki long ago and passed it on to several millenia?

If we do not believe the above, can we call our dharma as sanAtana - eternal dharma?

In some references it is mentioned that Rama avatar took place in 24th chatur yuga. This would be ~17 million years from this 28th chartur yuga! Why not?