Wednesday, August 31, 2011

Ecological angle to Ganesha worship



Given below is my article in Tamil published in Avani issue of Poojari Murasu, a monthly magazine circulated among temples priests of Tamilnadu. The article is about the ecological aspects connected with the worship of Lord Ganesha.

Usually this lord is found in numerous places particularly near water bodies and at the base of trees such as Peepal and Banyan.



One reason for this can be deciphered from the offerings made to him. The verse starting as "Gajananam" says that Ganesha relishes two fruits namely Kapiththa and Jumbu. 


The uniqueness of these two fruits is that they grow in places where there is underground water. They are called as "Jalanadis". South India is particularly crisscrossed by a net work of underground passages -perhaps formed by oozing lava at the time of formation of the Deccan Plateau. These passages are filled with rain water during the rainy season and at places where water runs for most part of the year, certain tress grow near them. Approximately 50 trees have been identified by Brihad samhitha as growing near these Jalanadis. Where the water flow is abundant and near the surface, ant hills are formed and trees such as Kapiththa and Jumbhu grow in specific distance and direction from the Jalanadi and the anthills.

Therefore protection of these trees helps us in identifying the Jalanadis and to draw water from them. It may be for this reason the fruits of these trees have been identified as offerings to Lord Ganesha. Trees such as Peepal, Banyan and Neem also grow near underground waterways. All these trees have been identified as sacred ones by our ancients. One reason for the sacredness is to protect them as they give valuable clues to identify the water sources.

The protection of anthill where snakes live also seems to have this purpose. The practice of sprinkling milk in the anthills where snakes reside has an ecological reason. In summer the Jalanadis may dry up, thereby making the underground dwelling of the snakes hot enough to drive them out. When people regularly worship the snakes in the anthill by offering milk in the holes, the snake- dwellings would remain cool in summer also. This makes the snakes remain in their dwellings and not venture out posing a threat to people.

-Jayasree

பிள்ளையார் என்னும் இயற்கைக் காவலன்!

பிள்ளையார் வழிபாட்டுக்கென்று தனி இடம் இந்து மதத்தில் இருக்கிறது. ஆனால் அவர் அமர்வதற்கென்று தனி இடம் தேவையில்லை என்று சொல்லும் வண்ணம் எல்லா இடங்களிலும் அவரைக் காணலாம். இன்றைக்கு நகரங்கள் பெருகிவிட்ட நிலையில், மூலை முடுக்குகளில் எல்லாம் பிள்ளையாரை பிரதிஷ்டை செய்து விடுகிறார்கள். ஆனால் முற்காலத்தில் பிள்ளையாருக்கென தனி இடங்கள் இருந்தன. குறிப்பாக மரத்தடியிலும், குளத்தங்கரையிலும், பிள்ளையாரை பிரதிஷ்டை செய்து விடுவார்கள். இதற்கு ஒரு முக்கியக் காரணம் இருக்கிறது. அந்தக் காரணம் நம்மை வாழ வைக்கும் சுற்றுப்புற இயற்கை வளத்தை, நாம் வாழ்விப்பதற்காக ஏற்பட்டது.

அந்தக் காரணம் என்னவென்று தெரிய வேண்டுமென்றால், பிள்ளையாருக்குச் செய்யும் நைவேத்தியப் பொருட்கள் எவை என்று தெரிந்து கொள்ள வேண்டும். பொதுவாக எல்லோரும் நினைக்கும் நைவேத்தியப் பொருட்கள் பால், தேன், பாகு, பருப்பு என்று ஔவை மூதாட்டிச் சொன்னவையாகும். ஆனால் இவற்றைப் பெற ஒரளவேனும் முயற்சிகள் செய்ய வேண்டும். எந்த முயற்சியும் இல்லாமல், எளிதில் இயற்கையில் கிடைக்கும் பொருட்களைப் பிள்ளையார் விரும்புகிறார். இதைச் சொல்லும் ஒரு வடமொழி ஸ்லோகம் இருக்கிறது. கஜானனம் பூத கணாதி சேவிதம்என்று தொடங்கும் அந்த ஸ்லோகத்தில், பிள்ளாயாருக்குப் பிடித்த பழங்கள் என்று இரண்டு பழங்களின் பெயர்கள் சொல்லப்பட்டுள்ளன. அவை விளாம் பழமும், நாகப்பழமும் ஆகும். இந்த விவரத்தைக்கபித்த ஜம்பூ பலசார பக்ஷிதம்என்று அந்த ஸ்லோகம் சொல்கிறது. (கபித்தம் = விளாம்பழம், ஜம்பூ = நாகப்பழம் அல்லது நாவல் பழம்).

இந்த இரண்டு பழங்களைத் தரும் மரங்கள், நம் பாரத நாடெங்கும் இயற்கையாகவே ஆங்காங்கே வளருகின்றன. இவற்றுக்குள்ள ஒரு விசேஷம் என்னவென்றால், இவை நிலத்தடி நீர் ஓடும் இடங்களுக்கருகே வளருகின்றன. நமது நாடு வானம் பார்த்த பூமியாகும். வருடத்தில் சில மாதங்களில் பெய்யும் மழை நீரானது பூமிக்குள் சென்று அங்கு நிலத்தடி நீராகத் தங்குகிறது. ஒரு இலையில் நரம்புகள் இருப்பது போல, நமது நாட்டின் நிலத்துக்கடியில் நரம்புகள் போல குறுக்கும் நெடுக்குமாக பாதைகள் இருக்கின்றன. பூமிக்குள் செல்லும் மழை நீரானது இந்தப் பாதைகளில் தங்குகின்றன. இந்தப் பாதைகளை ஜல நாடிஎன்கிறார்கள். அந்த ஜலநாடி சில இடங்களில் பூமிப்பரப்புக்கு அருகிலும், சில இடங்களில் ஆழத்திலும் செல்கின்றன. அவை பூமிக்கருகில் அருகில் இருக்கும் இடங்களில் எறும்புப் புற்று உண்டாகிறது. அந்தப் புற்றுகள் பூமிக்கடியில் ஜலநாடிகளுடன் இணைகின்றன. அங்கு நீர் இருக்கவே மரங்களும் வளருகின்றன. அப்படி வளரும் மர இனங்கள் 50 க்கும் மேல் என்று ரிஷிகள் எழுதி வைத்துள்ளார்கள். அவற்றுள் முக்கியமான இரண்டு மரங்கள் விளா மரமும், நாவல் மரமும் ஆகும்.

இந்த மரங்கள் கண்ணில் பட்டால், அங்கு அருகில் நீரோட்டம் இருக்கிறது என்று தெரிந்து கொள்ளலாம். இந்த மரங்களே நீரோட்டத்தை அடையாளம் காட்டும் கருவிகள் ஆகும். எனவே இந்த மரங்களைப் பாதுகாத்தால், நீரோட்டம் எங்கிருக்கிறது என்பதை எளிதில் கண்டுபிடித்து விடலாம்.

ஓரிடத்தில் இருக்கும் நிலத்தடி நீரோட்டத்துக்கு ஏற்றாற்போல ஒரு குறிபிட்ட கோணாத்தில், குறிப்பிட்ட திக்கில்தான் இந்த மரங்கள் வளருகின்றன. உதாரணமாக, நாவல் மரத்துக்கு வடக்கில் நாலரை அடி தூரத்தில் கிழக்கு- மேற்காக ஜலநாடி ஓடும். அங்கேஒரு மனிதன்ஆழத்துக்குத் தோண்டினால், நல்ல சுவையுள்ள நீர் கிடைக்கும், ஒரு மனிதன் ஆழம் என்பது அதிக பட்சம் ஆறடி என்பதாகும்.

அது போல நாவல் மரத்துக்குக் கிழக்கே புற்று இருந்தால், அந்தப் புற்றுக்குத் தென்புறத்தே இரண்டு மனித ஆழத்தில் தண்ணீர் கிடைக்கும்.

அது போல விளாமரம் ஒன்று கண்ணில் தென்பட்டதென்றால், அதற்குத் தெற்கில் பெரும்பாலும் ஒரு புற்று தென்படும். அந்தப் புற்றுக்கு வடக்கில்  பத்தரை அடி தூரத்தில் தோண்டினால், ஐந்து மனித ஆழத்தில் நல்ல சுவையான நீர் கிடைக்கும்.

இவ்வாறு மரங்களின் மூலம் நிலத்தடி நீரை அடையாளம் கண்டார்கள். அங்கு நிலத்தைத் தோண்டி சுனைகளும், குளங்களும் வெட்டினார்கள். அந்த நீர் ஆதாரங்களை மக்கள் மாசு படுத்தி விடாமல் இருக்க, அங்கே பிள்ளையாரையும், புற்றுடன் கூடிய மரமாக இருந்தால் நாகத்தையும் பிரதிஷ்டை செய்தார்கள். புற்றாக இருந்தால் அதில் பால் தெளிப்பதன் மூலம், வெயில் காலங்களில் ஜலநாடி வற்றினாலும், அங்குள்ள மண் குளிர்ந்தே இருக்கும், இதனால், புற்றுக்குக் கீழே நிலத்தடியில் வாழும் பாம்புகள் வெளியே வராது. புற்றுக்குப் பால் தெளிப்பதில் இந்த நன்மையும் இருக்கிறது.

பிள்ளையார் வழிபாட்டில், ஜலநாடியை அடையாளம் காட்டும் மரங்களின் பழங்களைப் பயன்படுத்தினால் அந்த மரங்களை மக்கள் அழிந்துவிடாமல் காப்பாற்றுவார்கள் என்ற எண்ணத்தில் இப்படி ஏற்படுத்தி இருக்கிறார்கள். இந்த இரு மரங்களைப் போல அரச மரம், ஆல மரத்துக்கு அருகிலும் நீரோட்டம் செல்லும். ஆனால் அவற்றுக்கு ஒரு தெய்வீகத்தன்மை இருப்பதால் நினைத்த மாத்திரத்தில் மக்கள் அந்த மரங்களை அழிப்பதில்லை. ஆனால் விளாமரத்துக்கும், நாவல் மரத்துக்கும் அந்த மரியாதை கொடுப்பதில்லை. அவற்றை அழித்து விட்டால், நீரோட்டம் கண்டுபிடிப்பது கடினமாகி விடும். இதன் காரணமாக இந்த மரங்களின் பழங்களை நைவேத்தியப் பொருட்களாக ஏற்படுத்தி இருக்கிறார்கள்.

இன்று இந்த மரங்களை நாம் தேடிப்பார்க்க வேண்டும். அந்த அளவுக்கு அவற்றை அழித்து விட்டார்கள். அதனால் மக்களுக்குத்தான் தொல்லை. நீரோட்டம் எங்கு செல்கிறது என்று தெரியாததால், ஜலநாடிகள் ஓடும் இடங்களில் இன்று குடியிருப்புகளைக் கட்டி விடுகிறார்கள். மழை பெய்தால், எங்கோ பெய்த மழை நீராக இருந்தாலும், இந்த ஜல நாடிகளில் வந்து சேர்ந்து விடும். அதனால் மழை பெய்து பல நாட்களான பிறகும், வீட்டைச் சுற்றிக் குளம் போல தண்ணீர் தேங்கி நிற்கும் நிலை ஏற்படுகிறது. அதற்குப் பிறகு பிள்ளையாரே, பெருமாளே எனக்கு நிம்மதி இல்லையே என்று கேட்டு என்ன பயன்? இயற்கைக்கும் நல்லது, மக்களுக்கும் நல்லது என்று நம் முன்னோர்கள் ஏற்படுத்தி வைத்த வழி முறைகளைப் பின் பற்றாததால் வந்த வினை இது. இனியேனும் மரங்களைக் காப்போம். பிள்ளையார் வழிபாட்டில் இருக்கும் இயற்கைப் பாதுகாப்பைத் தெரிந்து கொண்டு மரங்களைப் பராமரிப்போம்.

Related post:-

Science of detecting underground water veins.


47 comments:

mosurh said...

I regularly follow your posts and started reading Mrityuenjaya mantra daily after your advise.
However can you please advise any mantra for Irritable Bowel Syndrome? I have always suffered from stomach problems but for the past year IBS has destroyed peace of mind. Any advise would help.If this is out of your scope I understand

jayasree said...

@ mosurh

Please read my old post "Diseases caused by Purva janma karma" where I have given info from Vaidhya Chinthamani for the causes for diseases and the remedies. The info for ulcer might perhaps help you.

Usually the problems of the stomach / eating / digestion are caused by spoiling the food of others and / or appropriating the food of others. The digestion related issues are seen from the 6th house or Virgo or Venus and / or moon. Locate the cause of the ailment from the current dasa-bhukthi which must be related to the above mentioned factors. Based on the afflicting planet, do the parihara.

Another cause is the excess of Piththa / bile in your constitution. Consult an ayurvedic expert.

In astrology Sun signifies Bilious constitution. If your Sun is a Baadak or in adverse position, worship Marundeeshwara of Thiruvanmiyur and do anna dana.

BK Chowla, said...

Happy Ganesh Chaturthi

jayasree said...

Thanks Mr Chowla. My wishes to you and all the readers.

mosurh said...

Thanks very much for the advise. I have no knowledge in Astrology.My rasi is Kanni and Chithirai Nashthram and I am April 7 born. Does that help in finding dasa bhukthi?

jayasree said...

@ mosurh

Please give your complete birth details - place, time and date & year of birth.

jayasree said...

@ mosurh

As I expected the 6th house affliction is there. From Jan 2010 to June 2012 the acuteness of your problem will be there.

The 6th lord Mars is in the 12th where it conjoins Ketu. Generally mars as lord of 6th gives Piththa related discomforts and position of malefics in the 12th give stomach upsets and smelly discharges. The position of Rahu in the 6th aspected by a weak Mars from the 12th has given acuteness of the problem in rahu bhukthi running now (in the above mentioned period).

But I am afraid I can not give you hope of permanent remedy as the next dasa that starts in June 2012 is that of Saturn, the 8th lord who is posited in 6th lord Mars's astersim.

I advice you to go for a sustained medication of alternative medicine, preferably Homeopathy and not Ayurveda. Why no to Ayurveda is because Jupiter (signifactor of Jupiter) is a baadhak and in debility in Navamsa and also posited in Rahu's asterism. So in all probability your IBS would have started right from Jupiter Dasa in 1996.

As astrological remedies, do puja to Goddess Chamundi or Mahishasura marthini on all Fridays. Donate for sarpa puja and offer worship to Sarpa / Rahu- Ketu in Navagraha on your birth star every month. Donate a coral studded ornament to Lord Lakshmi Narasimha in a temple. The acuteness will come down from 2013 onwards.

mosurh said...

Thank you so much for the analysis. Kind of makes sense I have been having Thyroid problems and gained weight from 1995 but I had severe stomach cramps before that and was told thats due to Rahu dasa.I have never tried Ayurveda only Homeopathy.The Jupiter bhadak probably is also the reason of my being single.
Anyway I guess its a way to get closer to the creator. Will reading of Sundara Kandam help? I just finished one round 2 weeks back.

jayasree said...

@ mosurh

Your family deity is a Vishnu group deity. So reading Sundhara khanda is good. But worship of Mahishasuramarthini and sarpa puja are precise remedies for your ailment.

The causes for being single for so long are many in your horoscope.

Jupiter is one, but the 7th house receives bad asepcts from Mars and Saturn.
The 7th lord goes into debility in navamsa and is aspected by Saturn there.
The 7th from the moon is occupied by Sun which is a kalathra dosham.
The 2nd from the moon and 12th from the lagna have zero bindus in mars and saturn ashtakavarga.
As per Krishnamurthy Padathi also 4 out of 6 factors are unfavorable.

The Baadak going to the 9th joining rajasic planets show a defect / discontinuance of devatha worship of the paternal ancestral home. In view of this I suggest you continue Sundhara khanda parayanam for all times.

mosurh said...

Thanks a lot again. But my family diety is Murugar(and in general Shiva) so am surprised to see mention of Vishnu family diety.Does diety from mother's side count?
Yes we do regularly do Hanuman poojai.
What would qualify as paternal ancestral home devatha? Will it be the kulla daivam who is Murugar? Or the diety in the paternal village which was left 2 generations before.

mosurh said...

What is Kalathra dosham?

jayasree said...

@ mosurh.

Kula devatha is seen from the 4th house and the deity worshiped in your home is seen from the 2nd house. Murugan is worshiped in your home - 2nd lord moon in the asterism of Mars.Moon posited in the 4th and aspected by Sun makes you think that Shiva - parvathy and Murugan (moon in martian asterism)are the deities of your family.

But the kula devatha is worshiped for generations in your lineage and that is signified by Mercury in your horoscope. Your athma karaka also happens to be Mercury signifying Vishnu. (athma karaka is the planet that has traveled more in a sign compared to other planets.) The 12th from that in navamsa shows the deity that protects you (paalana deivam) It is Venus. These 2 - Venus and Mercury are related with each other in both rasi and navamsa with refernce to the 9th house (of father / paternal).

This shows a Vishnu deity with a consort. This deity is joined by Baadak Jupiter in the 9th in rasi. That is why it is inferred that worship of a Vishnu deity for many generations in your family (father's side) had been discontinued. That is also one a factor for delay / denial of marriage.

By the grace of the paalana deiva, you have recited Sundhara khanda. Continue that.

Usually there will be a transition towards Vishnu group of deities ultimately for many people through many births. Worship of Shiva is suitable for ascetics. In practice we find staunch Shiva worshipers remaining unmarried. Worldly happiness is not enjoyed by such people. In today's world, it is very difficult for people to remain detached to worldly pleasures. That is why it is said Vishnu bhakthi is an easy way for worldly pleasures and also for Moksha.

There are astrological yogas which also establish this. Karunanidhi had been a staunch Shiva devotee in his previous birth. A wrong done to a Guru made him what he is now. It is difficult to get back to Shiva worship which is very strict. He is moving towards Vishnu as seen from the genuine (the only genuine issues) interest in Mercury related factors such as writers, writing, books etc.

I came across a Naadi aphorism also which tallies with certain factors shown in his horoscope for Shiva worship in previous birth. I will sometime write all that in an article and also about the astrological and behavioral requisites for attaining Moskha based on astrology and knowledge gained from Naadi manuscripts.

At the moment I want to concentrate on Thamizan Dravidanaa series.

*******

Kalathra dosha means affliction to marriage / getting a spouse.

mosurh said...

Hi
What you have mentioned is very interesting regarding worship of Shiva. For the generations I am aware of, we have been Shaivites and the village temple also is one of Shiva.Maybe something happened before that which we are not aware of. Anyway greatly appreciate the time taken to analyse and answer my queries. Thank you so much again.

padmum said...

Licle. It came to me in Tamizh and I spent time translating it into English before I discovered that you have already done so...have shared in Fb.

jayasree said...

@ padmum

Thanks madam.

Ram said...

Sorry to say but Jayasree seems to be very ignorant of vedic knowledge. She is trying to put astrology into medical treatment. Anybody can agree to follow any home remedies using herbs like ginger, honey, neem oil or such medicinal items. "As astrological remedies, do puja to Goddess Chamundi or Mahishasura marthini on all Fridays. Donate for sarpa puja and offer worship to Sarpa / Rahu- Ketu in Navagraha on your birth star every month. Donate a coral studded ornament to Lord Lakshmi Narasimha in a temple. The acuteness will come down from 2013 onwards. " all is clearly superstition. Not just this alone all such prescriptions to sri Moursh are wrong and have no sense.

jayasree said...

@ Ram,

You say that I am ignorant of Vedic knowledge. So be it. But your comment shows your ignorance of astrological remedies.

Ram said...

@Jayasree
First of all, let me be clear, am not an atheist.Iam a firm believer in GOD.
The most authentic age old vaidya shastra is sushruta shaastra. Does this shastra talk of astrological remedies. If somebody knows that his kidney is not functioning well, does he go to doctor or pray to GOD to heal it. If i have high fever, do i take medicine or pray GOD.
I might be ignorant of astrologial remeidies. Could you please tell us how can "worship of Mahishasuramarthini and sarpa puja are precise remedies for some ailment". What has mahisasura marthini and sarpa has got with his ailment.
Please provide me analytical answers.

jayasree said...

@ Ram

Hello, I can't teach one who does not even know the abc of astrology and does not even know what and how astrological remedies are derived.

Moreover ayurveda and astrology work hand in glove because medicines are not recommended without taking into account the time astrologically derived. I have not read Shusrutha except from online sources. But on astrology I can say with conviction as I am qualified by tradition and University education as well.

Including treatment for nightmares,(in addition to physical ailments) astrological timing is / was used by medical practitioners in times of yore. Astrological remedies are derived on certain basics which I can not explain to one with zero knowledge of astrology.

jayasree said...

//If somebody knows that his kidney is not functioning well, does he go to doctor or pray to GOD to heal it. If i have high fever, do i take medicine or pray GOD.
I might be ignorant of astrologial remeidies. Could you please tell us how can "worship of Mahishasuramarthini and sarpa puja are precise remedies for some ailment". What has mahisasura marthini and sarpa has got with his ailment.
Please provide me analytical answers.//

No one says not to go to the doctor and take only astrological remedies. Medication is done but ayurvedins followed time factor based on astrology to give treatment in olden days. Today also astrological remedies are relevant in addition to medical treatment. This may sound absurd to you but is based on the premise that any disease is purva karma based which require both physical and spiritual treatment.

I think you are a newcomer to my blog. There are many articles on this issue in this blog. Browse and know. My thesis topic for my doctorate in astrology is on medical astrology. It is one of the topics that can be reliably proved in terms of disease, its onset and working of remedies. I have no time and patience to explain more on this to a novice. Only some level of informed questions will be answered.

Ram said...

I have nothing to do with your thesis which could be based on some superstitions. There are hell lot of myths outside to research and become doctor from some university.
I humbly request you to research something that is truly useful to mankind. What proof do you have to say "Today also astrological remedies are relevant". They were never relevant and they can never be relevant. I pity as you have prescribed to do sarpa pooja instead of go and see a vaidya first. This kind of statements mislead ignorants of your blog readers.
It doesn't matter if iam new to your blog or old. This sounds childish. It all matters what we are exchanging. What do you mean by some lever of informed persons. What information you are asking us to subscribe to.
You got to prove your statements regarding ASTRONOMICAL REMEDIES.
Quote me a single authentic hymn or manthra to substantiate your stand and view.This will help your thesis too.
Please do not escape saying, you have no time or patience to explain a novice. Iam a novice to your blog and not to the knowledge of vedas.

jayasree said...

Ignorance is Bliss - this is what I can say after reading the above comment. Only a person ignorant of so many things can write a comment as above.

By this I just do not refer to ignorance
> in astrology,
> in research in astrology,
> in the stature of Universities that offer astrology as UGC approved subject,
> in the stature of astrology as the foremost subject of use to mankind which can even be substantiated through inscriptions and archeological findings from Thames to Altai (to mention the extent of the region outside the present-day realm of Vedic influence),
> in the hand in glove co-existence of astrology and ayurveda as any disease is attributed to 'Purva janma krutham paapam vyaadhi roopena peeditham' - a diction that you find in ThirukkuraL also
> in the disadvantage a new reader with absolutely no idea of all these and therefore advised to know something before asking (my articles are meant for those who already know the basics),
> in astrological remedies and not ASTRONOMICAL remedies

but refer to the ignorance of one of astrology as the Eye of the Veda Purusha (Jyothish mayanaam chakshushu) and as "idam kaalavidhana shastram yo jyothisham veda sa veda yajnaan" who claims that he is not a novice to Vedic knowledge!!!

A true seeker of knowledge would have landed at my article that specifically address the dictum that astrology is the eye of the Veda purusha. For such readers let me give the link to that article

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22718504/Jyothisha-Eye-of-the-Veda-Purusha

Sheela said...

@ Ram,

Astrological remedies alongwith medical aids has worked wonders in my case personally as a follower of this blog.

i thought a person with even little knowledge of Vedas will have more humility. Sorry to say you sound a disappointment to your name.

Sheela

Ram said...

Dear Sheela Namaste!
Yes any such susperstitions would be felt worked because having faith (blind or true) along with the correct medicine would have treated the ailment. In any case, such faiths alone cannot be hailed to treat ailments.
If my earlier responses/posts sounded harsh, am sorry but I was trying to stress that such faiths in astronomical remedies is simply superstition and cannot stand any logical/rational/analyitical argument. Vedas are perfect references to any such arguments. Vedas simply say think,analyse, dig deep to know the truth and reject the falsehood.
In your case, taking proper medicine and keep faith in GOD would also have shown the same results. Sarpa pooja doesn't have any kind of relation/link to your ailment. Please try to understand and think with open mind.

Dhanyawaad!

Ram said...

Jayasree writes "Usually the problems of the stomach / eating / digestion are caused by spoiling the food of others and / or appropriating the food of others"
Can any sane person take this statement. Problems of the stomach or for that matter any such bodily problems primarily are results of constipation or unhygenic health habits, lack of physical exercise. Why would anybody spoil the food of others or appropriate others' food and what relation does it has to my stomach ache/problems. If you act bad on anybody's food you will be facing its result based on law of karma. It doesn't show directly on your stomach. These kind of statements sound good for guillible persons or kids. All such statements are purely childish and misleading innocents.

Ram said...

Also "Another cause is the excess of Piththa / bile in your constitution. Consult an ayurvedic expert".
Yes everybody to be in perfect healthy condition, vaatha, pittha, kafa should be in balanced state and any higher state of these three would cause the dosha in the body accordingly. Consulting ayurveda expert is correct and treat the ailment.
Doing anna daana is very good karma and it is completely independent karma which gives good results on the whole but this has nothing to do with the treatment of Moursh's Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Instead he should take proper ayurved medicine, practice yoga, drink more water and such other healthy habits to treat.
Dhanywaad!

jayasree said...

Mr Ram,

It is obvious you are venturing into domains about which you have absolutely no idea. I would rather say that you take your own time -which may even take many births - to understand how events in human life are designed by the Invisible Almighty. But one line in your comments showed that you are aware of the basics - may be as a matter of having read it or heard it.

It is

//If you act bad on anybody's food you will be facing its result based on law of karma.//

For any experience felt at the present, the cause is in the past. More often than not the cause is in some previous birth. By this logic, if the present experience pertains to stomach related issues, it means the past cause also is stomach related. If a person causes hurt to the stomach of another - which could happen by way of not deliberately feeding someone or spoiling the food taken by someone or preventing someone from eating and so on - its logical effect would be on stomach related issues for the person who has caused those hurts. The idea is 'you get what you have given'.

In this scenario, there is no black and white side of good or bad. One could have caused someone to starve but fed someone else better. One is not and need not be cruel at all times. That is how the effect of a bad deed done by one gets tampered by the time the effect is to actually get manifest. Such a tempering is also done knowingly and unknowingly. Some of the time tested means of tampering given by none other than the Vedic rishis include Japa, Tapa, daana and worship.

These rishis have given the ways to identify the kind of problems and the related japa, tapa, worship etc. This is vast knowledge available to us in the name of Jyothisha. Recall Adhi-Jyauthisham of Taittriya upanishad. It is about science of Light starting from primordial agni / heat upto Sun that are the causes of whatever is there on earth. Whatever is there on earth is under constant influence of Light that comes from outer space, from stars, from Sun, reflected light of planets and whatever around us that have been influenced by these lights.

Based on that everything from grains to stones to energy identities known by names of numerous Gods are all working on us either as food we take or as that food that we are genetically disposed to digest or as mental or thought forces corresponding to the mental and thought forces that we created as causes in the past. What you talk now is limited by the causative factors in your previous births. That is why I said in the beginning that you will take your own time to understand. Whatever I write here can not be understood by you unless you have the causative karma to understand it now.

Why then should I write all this here? It is for anyone who seeks to know these - they would land up in these pages and start thinking on them. That is why I said I am not for beginners.

Without the knowledge that it was the Vedic rishis who have given astrology with all factors on how to derive and deduce issues like disease and remedies from disease, it is definitely a case of beating around the bush for you. Please don't expect me to reply to such queries.

Ram said...

Dear Sheela, Namaste!
"For any experience felt at the present, the cause is in the past. More often than not the cause is in some previous birth"

Obviously any result is of previous karma. For example,only after my thumb is cut (accidentally), it can bleed. Every child knows that the cause of any result is from the past karma.
With what base are you able to say that the cause is not from previous birth.
The very fundamental basics of law of karma is that our atman carries all its past karma(until the current moment) as sanskaras. Be it from the previous birth or present birth. Good actions give good results and so the bad. No good karma can negate the past bad karma. IT CANNOT HAPPEN. If any good karma can negate bad karma then GOD's law of karma can be easily proven fallacious. It cannot just happen.
Your analogy can simply make murderers, thieves and create anarchy in society.
Based on your (false) analogy, if i kill somebody and give birth to a child, the result of killing a person should be nullified. Does this sound logical?
A person with no knowledge of any scriptures/shastras wouldn't accept this. Even atheists believe in law of karma if not in the existence of GOD.

For your kind information, law of karma doesn't act on such a filthy way, as stated by you. Your childish statements prove again your knowledge about law of karma. Let it be that i take several births to gain knowledge but my innver voice strongly says, i would stand against false and fallacious theories.

Let me feed you something on vedanga. Astrology is just one of the six vedangas. Vyakarana,Nighantu,Nirukta,Jyotisha,Kalpa and Chhandas.
Thorough knowledge of these 6 vedangas is must to contemplate or comment on vedas. These are only helpful to correctly decipher the true meaning of each vedic manthra.
Astrology doesn't talk of law of karma.

May the Almight give us the courage to seek the truth and stand by it.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

Again I have to repeat "ignorance is bliss" - the ignorance starting from the very first line of your comment on who the addressee is!

I am telling you that you have to go a long way to understand these things. Atleast read many articles in my blog to get a grasp of these issues. The only piece of idea in your comment that requires an explanation is

//No good karma can negate the past bad karma. IT CANNOT HAPPEN. If any good karma can negate bad karma then GOD's law of karma can be easily proven fallacious. It cannot just happen. //

As one who claims knowledge of Vedic lore, you must be knowing what Hanuman says in his Hithopadesha to Ravana. There he does talk about good karma and bad karma. By good karma one increases fruits of righteousness. The good karma erases or reduces the fruits of bad karma. He says "Dharmascha adharma naashanaha". Good karma does destroy fruits of bad karma.

But by this dictum one can not do a bad karma intentionally and then do a good karma in the belief that the fruits of good karma would erase the fruits of bad karma. In that case one has to undergo the fruits of bad karma.

If in a situation a person realises his bad action and repents for it - that is where japa, tapa, dana and worship come into picture - he can reduce the fruits of bad karma though not completely wipe them off.

Hanuman tells Ravana that he (Ravana) had done many good karma in the past for which he had been enjoying good fruits. But what was done before can not nullify the bad karma he did later - of abducting Sita. This karma would bring its own bad fruits which he can avoid only by returning Sita to Rama and seeking his pardon. When he can not do that he had to invariably undergo the fruits of this bad karma. Like this there are subtleties in understanding karma.

Suppose the same type of Ramayana episode happens with a difference. A person abducts the wife of another and was never cornered as Rama did. How he is going to experience the fruits of this karma? Would that happen in the same birth?

Suppose he repents for his act and treats the woman with dignity, certainly the fruits of his bad action (that is going to come back to him in future) would get modified. There was a Tamil film titled "Chirai" with Lakshmi and Rajesh in the lead. That film shows the developments in the life of them after a crime is committed on the woman. The further handling of the issues and level of repentance are logical as per how Karma gets modified.

If as you think good karma can not modify bad karma (you said 'negate' - no negation happens)it is akin to the dangerous situation as in 'Day of Judgement' of the Abrahamic religions.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namasate!
Sorry i addressed your name as Sheela.

"Dharmascha adharma naashanaha" should be understood at a society level. If government strictly implements the laws fo anti-corruption, corruption can be destroyed. This is true.
When it comes to karma on individual basis, everybody has to bear its fruits. Laws of a country may not be perfect because they are man-made,unlike the laws of Karma.
If one sincerely realizes his papa karma and resolve to not commit such karma again in future definitely he is evolving and rising and can avoid any future papa karma. But he cannot get away from the past papa karma in any way.

I trust more on Vedas and upanishads if we want to take/talk any references regarding law of karma, rather than some statement from some author's Ramayana. Because many authors have written Ramayana with their own understanding unlike Vedas which stand uncorrupted to date.
Even if one commits a bad karma intentionally or unintentionally, he has to bear its fruits and no good karma can negate the past bad karma. By your analogy, say if i hurt somebody unintentionally and apologize later for the mistake, that person might forgive me but I have to bear the fruits of both the actions. Every karma is independently gestated. Say, due to lack of knowledge of papa/punya, a thief steals money some 5 years back and now after realizing it he gives back the money to the same person he had stolen from or distributes to poor. Both doesn't make it zero.
Same was the case with Rishi Valmiki, he was involved in robbing everyday and when he learnt that he is the fruit-bearer of his papa karma, he stopped doing it.
Why talk of similar situation as Ramayana, take several instances of women being adbucted, raped, ill treated and those culprits are roaming unpunished by law. What best treatment after raping a women would negate his papa karma of rape. However best he treats her after the act, doesn't negate his papa.If he realizes his papa karma and doesn't commit such action again in future can only minimize his papa karma.

By the way, astrology doesn't say anything on law of karma. Let me bring to you a famous manthra from yajurveda's 40th chapter,2nd manthra.
कुर्वन्नेवेह कर्माणि जिजीविषेच्छतँ समाः ।
एवं त्वयि नान्यथेतोऽस्ति न कर्म लिप्यते नरे ।। (यजुर्वेद ४०.२)

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

Again Ignorance at its best for someone who claims knowledge of Vedas.

//rather than some statement from some author's Ramayana.//
That is not some statement from someone. That statement is from Valmiki Ramayana. Check out yourself. I won’t give you the verse number. Only if you search to read it by yourself, you would know the passages on Karma and its impact as talked by Sita. Point is without adequate knowledge of basics you are writing here. Waste of time for me in replying to you.


You wrote
//By your analogy, say if i hurt somebody unintentionally and apologize later for the mistake, that person might forgive me but I have to bear the fruits of both the actions.//

Yes. Otherwise there is no point is praying to God for release from sufferings (caused by bad karma) and there is no meaning in the famous sloka of Gitacharya “aham twa sarav paapEshu moksahyiswami maa shu cha:”


You wrote
//and now after realizing it he gives back the money to the same person he had stolen from or distributes to poor. Both doesn't make it zero.//

It doesn’t. Who said it will be zero. But you continue to suggest in your further writing on Valmiki:-

//Same was the case with Rishi Valmiki, he was involved in robbing everyday and when he learnt that he is the fruit-bearer of his papa karma, he stopped doing it.//


Ok, Valmiki stopped doing it. By your rationale, he must experience sufferings for his bad karma he did previously as a thief. But did he experience? If yes, show proof. If no, it means he has destroyed fruits of bad karma by Rama naama.

You wrote
//By the way, astrology doesn't say anything on law of karma.//


Ignorance at its Best. Initially I thought of giving links from my old blogs and the sources in astrology. But now I have decided not to do that. Better be an ignorant lot till your karma warrants.

The Yajur Veda mantra:- Did you decipher its meaning? If yes you would not have quoted it!!

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
"Otherwise there is no point is praying to God for release from sufferings (caused by bad karma)"

Your statement tells me that you have a serious mis-undersanding about GOD and his actions. HE is not sitting somehwere like you and me and forgives for our wrong action just because you pray him. Prayers help us give courage to do righteous actions and gain fruits out of them. GOD cannot break his own law(of karma). GOD is invisible and only ignorant ppl (like you) go to temples to seek forgiveness for their wrong actions. Praayschittam is realizing our past bad karma and resolve to not to repeat and continue to do only noble actions. This alone is the way.

In addition, praying GOD to get away from the results of our bad karma encourages for more bad karma in the society. Simple thing, pls. get it.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

Again and again I dont want to tell you to read my other blogs or furnish yourself with Vedantha.

yE tatra Brahmanaha sammarshinaha/ yukta aayuktaaha.

The rationale of this is that it is better not to talk in the presence of one who does not know the nuances of Brahman, its creations, its relation with them and tool of furtherance of creation namely Karma . I am therefore keeping quiet.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
Iam sure you are not aware of the basics of vedanta, for which this your this blog is a proof. I wouldn't waste my time in reading your other blogs unless you point me to a blog of yours that contradicts this blog or disagree with this blog.
When i have questions about this blog alone, and you have no clear stand on your ideology while all other blogs are in line with this kind, why should i read other blogs.
One grain of rice is enough to check if its cooked or not.

I know very well about the jeevatma, paramatma and prakriti which are eternal and will be eternal always.
"yE tatra Brahmanaha sammarshinaha/ yukta aayuktaaha" Please give me word to word meaning of this.

And for the meaning and detailed explanation of the yajurved manthra is given in this link.
http://agniveer.com/ishopanishad-mantra-2/

I completely agree that your blogs serve better to those who doesn't have brahma gyan or ved gyan.
I humbly request you to wake up from the crutches of ignorance and be bold to read vedas and accept the truths.
I would love to see any sukta/manthra/statement from vedas pertaining to brahma gyan.
May you successfully complete your thesis for the sake of doctorate but truth stand truth. It doesn't need any thesis. Our great sages like, kapila, kanaad, jaimini,vyas have given detailed explanation of vedas in the form of upanishads and darshanas. They have strictly applied the knowledge of vedanga in commenting the vedic knowledge. Please read correct translations of vedas.
If you agree that at any point of time, for any argument/debate, if vedas or the shastras that are in line with vedas are the only reference to the resolution, Iam happy to continue to write to you.

My sole intention is to let you understand the vedic knowledge and the true nature of atma and paramatma.

May the param pita parameshwar give you strength to shun the falsehood and lead you towards light.
Chant gayathri manthra every morning.

Asatomaya sadgamayaa!
Tamasomaa jyotirgamyaa!!

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

In your comment, only two slokas need to be replied. Other material in your comment need no reply as they show the limitations of your self-assumed knowledge of Vedas.

First one is "ye tatra.." From what you have asked it is obvious that you don't know the context of this line from Taittirya upanishad nor you have "studied" this verse of Tattirya Upansihad.

Note my lines in my comment. I didn't say "meaning" but I said "rationale" of that line. The verse of which this line is an integral part says that the Vedic injunction is such that in matters of doubt or question on "karma" or anything on what to do in a given situation, do as the learned Brahmins would do. Further explanation of this verse is that in an assembly of learned Brahmins, one must not open one's mouth. Extending this rationale to what you write here, I am saying that learned people would not talk where fools talk. They would not talk on nuances of Brahman to one who does not even know that such nuances exist.


The 2nd one is the Yajur Veda sloka for which you have quoted agniveer. Look at the meaning given by agniveer.

" On contrary, the only way to remain unaffected by perils of wasteful/ dishonorable actions is to proactively and enthusiastically keep conducting noble actions every moment of life."

What is meant by 'unaffected by perils of wasteful and dishonorable actions'? Doesn't this convey that the effects of bad action are nullified by good actions?

However the said sloka of Yajur Veda / Isavasya upanishad does not exactly say that but actually says that one must do action not remain in inaction. What agniveer has written on "unaffected by perils of ...." is an interpretation which is true and which is what upanishads convey.This is the idea conveyed by Hanuman in "Dharmasch adharma naashanaha" in Valmiki Ramayana. This is the idea conveyed by Gitacharyan in pretty many places.
The actual meaning of that Yajus sloka is also conveyed by Gitacharyan
in "Niyatham kuru karma..." sloka.

One thing Mr Ram, by reading Vedas one can not know these things, and Vedas are not meant for "reading". Enough damage has been done to Vedism by this kind of "reading" and "writing" the meaning of Vedas. It is only through Vedantha, deduced from Prasthana-traya, do we come to know what Vedas convey.

If you can not land up on such articles in my blog, all that I can say is what I have written on top of the blog page - only 'genuine seekers'- will get what they want. Blind people can not get into those articles.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
"On contrary, the only way to remain unaffected by perils of wasteful/ dishonorable actions is to proactively and enthusiastically keep conducting noble actions every moment of life"
You again misunderstood the above statement. It means that you can avoid further miseries only by conducting noble actions. It doesn't mean your present good karma negates the past bad karma. Agniveer didn't mention that the perils from past karma can be made unaffected. Continuous noble karma can make the future better as we wouldn't be resulted with any more bad karma.

Please read carefully this from his another article from 3rd manthra of isopanishad.

"And you HAVE to face the consequences of all your mistakes. No amount of worship, prayers or confession can delete the results of your actions. Just as obesity does not get cured by saying prayers or saying sorry. But if you refuse to do anything with past mistakes, reprogram your routine, become health conscious, take good diet etc, over a period of time you can become lean again. Whatever principle applies to body, same applies to mind and soul" from
http://agniveer.com/ishopanishad-mantra-3/

Following your blogs blindly without questioning the rationality and logic seems to be your definition of 'genuine seekers' and you term those ppl blind who dont' read all your blogs. I shall leave this terminology to your intellect.

Dhanyawaad!

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

The meaning of the 3rd sloka of Isavasya Upanishad is not that. You can see that in the translation of that sloka done in that website.That sloka is similar to what is given the 16th chapter of Gita. That sloka explains the asuric tendencies that can doom one into a vicious cycle of births of asuric nature.

What you are harping is a deduction done by that author. If you agree with that deduction as true, then you must agree with the author's deduction for the 2nd sloka also where he says that good karma can wipe out the results of one's bad karma.

Moreover know that the author does not mean Prayers to God. He refers to prayers of lip service as he continues to say "saying prayers or saying sorry." In the next line he says "But if you refuse to do anything with past mistakes," What does this refer to? It refers to repentance, Prayaschittha. If you still think that Prayaschittha coming in the form of Tapa, japa, daana and worship are useless, then you are undermining the power of Self and self. You are undermining entire Bhagavad Gita. You are undermining Valmiki's transition.

All these pertain to reality situations. Even sages who had the grasp of the Brahman, had to do tapa, japa and daana to reduce the karmic impact of a bad action done voluntarily or unknowingly. There are such instances discussed in this blog.

But I am not keen on telling you all that because you don't have the basics. The substance of your questions shows lack of understanding of the very substance of Vedic life such as Pancha Yajnas. What you are telling is akin to Christian concept of Judgement day when all the bad actions of a person would be replied with punishment. There is a famous episode on this Judgement Day idea involving Kanchi Paramacharya. So many such ideas are there for knowing the basics.

Your mind is full of words whose meanings have not been imbibed by you. Vedantha is vast. Please know that by reading the meaning of Vedas one can not understand Brahman or Vedantha or karmic theory and how it works. I am not keen on explaining you because it is like trying to fill a pot that is already full of muddy water. Any water added to it is going to flow out. That is why I say I am not interested in explaining to you and say that you have to go a long way.

I am not asking anyone to follow my blogs blindly. But a genuine seeker will 'seek' answers. You are not a seeker. You already have a per-conceived notion - a wrong notion and judge Vedantic ideals with them. Read Brahma sutra - not commented by likes of agniveer but by acharyas - to know what kind of Vedantic ideals are involved in prayers, japa, tapa etc.

Any more comments with lack of substance will not be answered, but published for future readers to take stock.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
Nobody writes two contradicting blogs. That is why Iam not inclined to read your any other blog after this one.
Agniveer didn't say "good karma can wipe out the results of one's bad karma". This is your interpreation.
Detailing the second manthra he said, noble actions can help reducing the miseries, doesn't mean can nullify the results of past bad karma. One needs sookshma buddhi to contemplate on ved manthras.
Similar is the case on the explanation of 3rd manthra, No amount of worship, prayers or confession can delete the results of your actions. Commentary on both the manthras are in line and don't contradict.Sincere prayers help us commit ourselves to perform noble actions so that we don't fall prey for bad deeds but results of past bad karma has to be enjoyed. No other go!

FYI, I don't believe in judgement day. Everyday is a judgement day in vedic philosophy. Our sanskars form our fate and only our actions can mould our fate. Purushaarth is greater than Praarabdha.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
Summarizing all our discussions boils down to one single point.

You are in the opinion that noble karms can nullify the past bad karma and i strongly say NO!

Let the readers of the blog read and think deep.

As a vedic missionary, my only duty is to spread the truth and stop the propagation of falsehood.

May the parameshwar give me strength to stand by the truth.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ram,

//Detailing the second manthra he said, noble actions can help reducing the miseries, doesn't mean can nullify the results of past bad karma.//

Reducing the miseries. From where do the miseries come? From past karma. No one knows whether the noble actions nullify or not. But they do modify the miseries which are fruits of some bad karma. So you concur with this idea.

//Sincere prayers help us commit ourselves to perform noble actions so that we don't fall prey for bad deeds but results of past bad karma has to be enjoyed. //

Contradiction to the previous view. You agreed with agniveer in 'reducing the miseries' but here you say results of bad karma had to be borne in toto. That can happen in a stagnant or constant Universe not in our Universe where life keeps going in series of birth and rebirth. Know that we live in state of Gathi known as Garbha gathi where experiences will be a mix of both good and bad actions. (In contrast, those born in YAmya Gathi would experience only fruits of bad action, in Dhoomadhi gathi, only fruits of good action and in Archiradhi gathi, attains Parama padam)

Moreover your view completely challenges the famous Gita Vachan where Krishna says that he would write off all your paapas if you surrender to Him. Surrender includes prayers, thoughts, japa, tapa etal.

//Everyday is a judgement day in vedic philosophy.//

My God!

//Our sanskars form our fate and only our actions can mould our fate.//

Coming to my point of view. In a constant Universe, all actions and results are compartmentalized. In a moving Universe, every action done from truti level (the basic unit of time) onwards make the sanchitha karma realign constantly barring those that have to be passed on as prarabhdha karma.

// Vedic Missionary//

We need acharya purushas, teachers and guides but not Vedic missionaries. One can be a Vedic protector but not Vedic missionary. If what you have said all along is what a Vedic missionary spreads, that is real danger to Sanatana Dharma. Misguided ideals. I suggest that before venturing into Vedas, study Bhagavad Gita and be a Gita Missionary.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree,
"But they do modify the miseries which are fruits of some bad karma. So you concur with this idea" I never stated so nor i concur this. Performing noble actions can protect us from getting more miseries but any bad (past or present) karma results will have to be borne.

You are taking things in your own pre-occupied way.

For me, Gita is not GOD given. GITA has much much adulterations unlike vedas which have been protected as they came as shruthi. GITA is a man-made scripture unlike veda. Those things that comply with vedic knowledge can only be taken from GITA.

Ram said...

//Krishna says that he would write off all your paapas if you surrender to Him. Surrender includes prayers, thoughts, japa, tapa etal//
This is the reason, i said, GITA is completely not in line with Vedas as GITA is man-made book and men are not perfect as GOD.
What a fallacy it is to wipe off all the papas if somebody surrenders completely. I have stressing that this kind of things simply can create adharma in society. This simply states that i can commit any papa and surrender myself to GOD and GOD can wipe off. It just cannot happen as it breaks law of karma through which GOD is managing the souls.

jayasree said...

@ Ram,

Towing Christian Missionary line.

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!
"Krishna says that he would write off all your paapas if you surrender to Him. Surrender includes prayers, thoughts, japa, tapa etal"
Instead the above statement is more in line with the christian belief that Jesus blood will cleanse all our sins. I always wonder how a person's blood who died some 2000 years ago would clean sins of ppl way ahead of their sinful actions. How would Sri Krishna write off our sings.

jayasree said...

@ Mr Ram

//How would Sri Krishna write off our sings//

That is the essence of Vedantha which you can not know by reading the translation of Vedas or the neo-writers's interpretation. Go to the roots and read the commentary to Gita by Adi Shankara or Ramanuja. If that is difficult for you atleast read the essence of Andal's Thiruppaavai which is the highlight of this solar month of Magazhi. This month it is a tradition to recite the 30 verses of Thiruoppavai everyday. Everyday I think of you whenever I recite those lines of Thiruppavai that tell what Bhagawan "gives" us, the ultimate being "paRai"

Ram said...

Dear Jayasree, Namaste!

The difference in us is that you consider Gita as the roots and i consider Vedas as roots. You consider only those acharyas who commented on Gita. I consider all the rishis who commented on vedas and Gita.

Even Sankaraacharya in his saadhana panchakam asks everybody to study vedas daily. He gave due importance and respect to vedas. Please make it a part of your daily life, atleast start with gayathri manthram!

Ramakrishnarao Kowluri said...

Dear madam,

I just read some of your articles and noticed "Poojari murasu". One learned scholar told me that the word poojari may be split as pooja + ari; where ari means enemy and so poojari would be enemy of worship. He recomended the word purohitji or shastriji instead of poojariji.

Please let me have your explanation.

Also, I read another comment by some Tamizh scholar on your blog regarding "Why oppose Sanskrit week" saying the word "pooja" has Tamizh origin "poo + sei". Reading his comments, I felt that the "Truth As It Is" may never be understood or established beyond doubt, as each individual learns, analyzes, understands and assimilates knowledge according to his/her brought up and past experiences which we call vasanaas.

I also remembered another quote "If you do not agree with my lunacy, I will call you lunatic".

I had a long desire to learn, understand and establish that Sanskrit is the mother of all languages or at least that Tamizh and Sanskrit have co-existed and that Sanskrit is not alien to our culture, particularly Tamizh culture.

Now after seeing all the arguments from various sources, I feel this is a futile exercise. I will learn Samskrutam because I love the language as I grew up hearing all those hymns and stotras and want to understand the meaning of all the stotras given by great Rishis and saints. I have just started my course with Samskruta Bharati.

Your advice please.

Regards,
Ramakrishna