Wednesday, July 4, 2018

My presentation at Swadeshi Indology (SI3) conference on Aryan – Dravidian issue.

The video clipping of my presentation at SI3 conference on 23rd December 2017 is now available. It was a condensed talk of my 72 pages long paper supported by 91 citations! It was a bit difficult to present everything in a short time, forcing me to leave out some ideas while presenting the main ideas in a condensed form with minimal explanation. For easy tracking of the ideas, I am giving the link to my slides here.

The paper is basically a refutation of the ideas of Aryan migration to India and Dravidian migration to south India. These two were primarily the assumptions on which the famous epigraphist, Mr Iravatham Mahadevan built his research on Indus script. His main evidence was the presence of Brahui in North West India, in the region where Indus civilization flourished. But recently he reversed this idea while conceding that Brahui was originally spoken by the people of North east India. This shakes the very foundation of his research and therefore I took up his works as Purva paksha to check the veracity of his assumptions and methodology of research to find out how far his inference of Dravidian substratum for Indus is reliable.

In the course of this analysis the following ideas were mooted by me in the paper. Only some of them are touched in my presentation, but all of them will be written as separate essays later in Indology sites.

The Aryan issues:

1. Vedic society was not rural as it is made out to be.

2. The Harappan script “fell into disuse” not because the Aryans could not follow it owing to the oral transmission of Vedas.

3. Indra-Dhvajā was found in the Indus seals and its continued presence can be seen as the Dhvaja-stambha (flag-posts) of temples even today.

4. Absence of horse in Indus motifs is because horse was never an emblem of anyone anytime in India in pre-Common Era. On the other hand Unicorn, the most recurring sign of the Indus seal was the emblem of Jayadratha of Mahabharata who ruled over the Indus region.

5. The early Harappan phase coincides with the end of Mahabharata war giving scope to theorise that losers in the war became Vaisyas and started the trade. All the prominent Harappan animal motifs are emblems of losers of Mahabharata war.

6. Varaha emblem continued as the emblems of many dynasties until a few centuries ago. Varaha’s presence pre-dates Jayadratha and can be traced to Manu’s times.

7. History of Manu heralds the Vedic history of India, not Aryan Invasion.

8. Manu’s previous location was in what came to be known as Pancha Dravida, in the west coast of South India. First sea floods of Holocene pushed him into River Saraswathi which was a mighty Himalayan river draining into Arabian Sea at that time.

9. Manu’s new home is traced to Kashmir and Brahmavarta located in between Saraswati and Drishadvati.

10. Manu explored the east of India and chose Sarayu for setting up Ayodhya thereby ushering in Saraswati –Sarayu culture.

11. Sarayu of Rig Veda was the Sarayu in east India, not Haroiiu of Afghanistan as claimed by supporters of Aryan Invasion Theory.

12. Evidence shown from Ramayana that Sarayu of Rigveda was indeed the Sarayu of Ayodhya. This also means that Ramayana did happen and happened before the composition of that Rig Vedic verse on Sarayu.

14. Archaeo-botanical studies are cited to show that Sarayu - Gangetic and Vindhya region was a rice-bowl around 6th millennium BCE – during which Ramayana had happened. This period concurs with Pushkar Bhatanagar’s date of Ramayana.

15. Migrations had happened from India to West- Northwest India. Amāvasu, whom Witzel claims to be an incoming Aryan, was from Indian stock as he was the 12th fore-father of Vishwamitra.

16. Location of Kekaya of Ramayana is established as Bactria (and nearby) to show that Bactria was Vedic land and not a stop-over region by invading Aryans and Dasyus as claimed by Witzel and Parpola respectively.

The Dravidian issues:

17. Brahui was not Dravidian.

18. No Dravidian words in Rig Veda (as claimed by Mahadevan)

19. Jyeshta Devi whom Mahadevan calls as indigenous God of South India was the sister of Lakshmi (whom Mahadevan calls Aryan) and her cult was spread as far as Kekaya in Ramayana times.

20. Mahadevan’s version that Mahabharata was a civil war that led to the decline of Indus civilization is disputed.

21. Mahadevan’s version that Krishna was a Dravidian is disputed by showing that Krishna is mentioned in Rig Veda four times along with his family (son and grandson – Pradhyumna and Aniruddha) which gave rise to Vyuha concept of Vaishnavism.

22. Further disputed by showing 2 verses in Rig Veda on Krishna offering Soma to Asvin-s. This concept continues even today in the festival of Sharad Purnima by capturing the image of Full Moon (Soma) of Asvin month in the milk offered.

23. Mahadevan’s notions on Velir and Agastya disputed.

24. Agastya’s time established.

25. Agastya’s time concurs with the period of rice cultivation at Sarayu which once again concurs with the date of Rama by Pushkar Bhatnagar.

26. No Aryan or Dravidian element in the legends of Agastya.

27. Coming to Tamil substratum for Indus seals, there is no ‘an’ suffix in old grammar (Tol Kappiyam).

28. Tamil Brahmi as the basis for Tamil letters is false.

29. Brahmi was basically the product of Jains and Jain connection to Indus is shown.

30. Indus script found in Hathigumpha inscriptions and not in Tamil nadu.

31. No loan words and loan translations in Tamil.

32. Disputable nature of derivation with an example of “Muruga”.

33. No loan words from Sanskrit. As per Tol Kappiyam’s definition of ‘Vada sol’ (Sanskrit) ‘Meenam’ is as much a Sanskrit word as it is a Tamil word. Therefore wrong to say that (Indus) Meen was a Tamil word.

34.  Tamil and Sanskrit were sister languages: proved with Tol Kappiyam sutra on Vaikhari vaak.

35. Pali and Sanskrit were sister languages. Proofs include Pali word in Rig Veda.

36. Pali in vogue in Indus and beyond and seen in Mitanni treaty. Mohenjo in Mohenjo-Daro sounds like Pali.

37.  No parallelism with Tamil, only hints from Tamil.

38. Hint 1 from Silappadhikaram: The Great Bath likely to have been built by accomplices of Maya who built indoor water pool for Pandavas.

39. Hint 2 from Silappadhikaram: The script on the Indus seals are about name of the goods, size, number and the stamp of trader.

40. No Dravidian substratum for Indus as Mahadevan’s assumption of Aryan Invasion and methodology of using Tamil stand disputed.

Comments and discussions can be raised here in this blog for furtherance of understanding the issues detailed.


Srinivasan Kalyanaraman said...

Harappan script “fell into disuse”? Certainly not.There are millions of Punch-marked and cast coins from ca. 6th cent. BCE which contain Indus Script symbols. So does the Sohgaura Copper plate (Pre-mauryan) and so do the hypertexts of Sanchi, Bharhut and the Hathigumpha Kharavela inscription contain the Indus Script symbols. The arguments of Smt. Jayasree Saranathan are vivid, well-researched and precise. Mahadevan has to rethink his assumptions and method; if faith or belief system governs research,(say, a false Dravidian identity),truth gets discounted.


Raghunathan K said...


Watching the video, I was glad to see how your presentation was well received by the audience. Unfortunately, your answers to Prof Nagaswami's question about how you confirm Muruga is a Tamil God does not feature in the video. I am keen to learn what your response was.

It is heartening to note that awareness is beginning to build and that the lies and absurd (and some times obscene) theories heaped by foreign agents and their supporters are starting to get exposed.

Raghunathan K said...


Watching the video, I was glad to see the good reception your presentation received from the audience. Please accept my congratulations.

With due respects to Sri Mahadevan's painstaking work on Indus Scripts, it is heartening to note that a new awakening is beginning to build up and efforts are being made to prove 'established' theories on AIT wrong. I hope these concerted efforts are creating panic among the so called western scholars who have, with half-baked knowledge, unabashedly spit filth on our history and religion.

Please keep the good work going.


K. Raghunathan

jayasree said...

Thanks Mr Raghunathan for having followed the presentation and the discussion.

I didn't reply Mr Nagasamy as he didn't expect one (:)) and I didn't want to say in the open that he was wrong. Now you are asking, I am saying this. He didnt consider (or hear) my explanation of how Subramanya was the only God included in Manu's prayer for Indradhvaja apart from Vedic deities. He said many things which are out of sync with what I was telling. He ridiculed 6000 BCE etc and said all that is unscientific whereas I was scientific in arriving at that date with archaeo-botanical studies and astronomy study of sighting Agastya star.

He was wrong in saying that the word Muruga came from Mrgya, the hunter. Nowhere you come across the identity of Muruga as hunter, either in Tamil or Sanskrit works. He married a KuRa girl, KuRa referring to Kurinji, the hill-tribe. That Kura refers to hill tribe is known from Bogar 7000, where Trunadhoomagni (Tolkappiyar's original name) is said to have been born to a Kura girl, hill-tribe girl by Jamadagni. So it is wrong to say that Muruga refers to hunter. Even wrong to say that Valli was from hunter tribe.

The Nigandu meaning for Muruga is handsome and one who is divine.

However there is an expression murugu முருகு in sangam works, which is used in the context of Velan Veriyattam. (வேலன் வெறியாட்டம்) Ainkurunooru ஐங்குறுநூறு has one full chapter on this. That Murugu means shaman dance, or spirit entering a person. Mahadevan uses that meaning for Muruga and said that Muruga was a spirit body. You would see that in the slide. In his 1999 paper, Mahadevan gives 5 interpretations for Murugu and comes to this decision, but all the 5 can be disputed. So it boils down to the meaning 'beauty' for muruga.

How can I say all this in that assembly? And Mr Nagasamy had select ideas like he accepts only epigraphy and mocked at Silappadhikaram and Tolkappiyam source that I used. If we go by this idea, then on what basis he gave a long lecture on Tirukkural the previous day? What epigraphic evidence is there for Tiruvalluvar and his work as Dharma sastra? So what is good for the goose is not so for the gander.

And right from the beginning (when I requested him to attend my session and comment) he had been skeptical about Mahadevan and was deriding him. He derided me too saying what I am going to say for such lousy work of Mahadevan. But what many people didn't understand was Mahadevan was the one and only figure who was responsible for planting the idea in the DMK that Indus was Dravidian. In the early 70s, his paper was even tabled in TN Assembly by Karunanidhi. Complete demolition of Mahadevan's entire works means demolishing DMK's foundation in Indus- Dravidian ideology. It is for this reason I took up Mahadevan as Purva paksha.

Mr Nagasamy's derision for Mahadevan and me as well was reflected in his last sentence - "one speculation cannot be rued by another speculation" - means, Mahadevan's is a speculation and mine is also a speculation!! That's his verdict!!!!

What can I say to him?

jayasree said...

Mr Raghunathan,

Did you read my recent article on Hindu Gods in Iraq (Mesopotamia)?

Shortly I will post it in my blogs too. Its a series.

Raghunathan K said...


Thank you for your response, and for taking so much time to pen it. I agree with you that Mrgya as the origin of Muruga, or Valli as a hunter girl, doesn't seem to be correct. It is unfortunate that even learned people sometimes find it difficult to correct their views, despite valid proof being presented.

No, I haven't read your article on Hindu Gods. Will surely do shortly.


cheeky monkey said...

dear jayasree.
very fond of your blog. i have been following it for years and learnt a lot. This is valuable as i am living abroad and need to constantly stay with my religion and culture. ANyway , i was wondering if you think you could collaborate with Rajeev Malhotra. I have been following him on you tube and his life focus is to establish hinduism as a religion to be seen in the correct light throughout the world. I am sure there are many other things that he has ideas on. Please look at the you tube video. I think he is looking for people like you..

thank you sanjay