tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post1443153805970304238..comments2024-03-18T22:56:06.696+05:30Comments on Jayasree Saranathan: Please, no slander on Ramanujacharya.Jayasree Saranathan http://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-89083883991186371712015-03-06T10:41:58.058+05:302015-03-06T10:41:58.058+05:30In Garudaswamy`s work, nothing is brought to contr...In Garudaswamy`s work, nothing is brought to contradict Nagaswamy. Naga cites references to his contentions. But Garuda repeats the puranic versions. In almost all hearsays of our great personalities, myths precede facts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11927365133359164004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-32776301910867848752014-11-24T12:49:45.407+05:302014-11-24T12:49:45.407+05:30How do you prove that krishna is paripurna in vish...How do you prove that krishna is paripurna in vishistaadvaita?.....<br />because krishna only said that he is paripurna in bhagavath geetha...<br /><br />but ,according to vishistaadvaita...we are brahman,at the same time ,we are not paripurna...similar case applies to krishna...so,how is krishna paripurna in vishistaadvaita?Srivathsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03615592458828309283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-66369383188666541642014-11-18T18:10:53.758+05:302014-11-18T18:10:53.758+05:30How do you prove that krishna is paripurna in vish...How do you prove that krishna is paripurna in vishistaadvaita?.....<br />because krishna only said that he is paripurna in bhagavath geetha...<br /><br />but ,according to vishistaadvaita...we are brahman,at the same time ,we are not paripurna...similar case applies to krishna...so,how is krishna paripurna in vishistaadvaita?Srivathsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03615592458828309283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-82347545650152927192012-07-25T19:48:46.596+05:302012-07-25T19:48:46.596+05:30Conclusion
Going by the above given (many) versio...Conclusion<br /><br />Going by the above given (many) versions, may we<br />conclude <br />that <br />"He who knows Brahman attains the Highest"(tai II.1.1)<br />as the reply for the issue that it is Brahman who<br />grants Liberation and liberation alone - also<br />justified by the Taittriya passage 'soshnutE sarvAn<br />kamAn' - the meaning for kAmAn explained -(not as<br />desires),<br />That <br />Whatever worship is done to the anya devatas indeed<br />goes to Brahman who bestows the benefits through the<br />respective devatas and as such a devout Sri<br />vaishnavite must not resort to denouncement of anya<br />devata but instead make a resolve to not to desire<br />anything other than Brahman, for the gratification of<br />which he has to be always clinging to the feet of<br />Sriman Narayana,<br />That <br />For the gratification of specific benefits, specific<br />devatas must be worshipped (BS 1.1.2) as in the case<br />of AshwamEtha sacrifice and JyothistOmEna Homa for<br />reaching heaven,<br />And that<br />Even if one worships anyadevata by meditating on the<br />qualities associated with Brahman, he is said to be<br />worshipping the Brahman and Brahman alone and none<br />else.<br /><br />Quotable story:-<br /><br />Let me conclude with (once again a contrioversial<br />note:))the famous incident of Namperumal being carried<br />inside Thiruvannaikkaval Temple while Ramanuaja<br />stayed outside with his parivar when it rained.<br /><br /><br />When confronted with the question why he didn't go<br />inside, when his perumal didn't have any qualms to go<br />inside, (there are quite a few versions of Ramanuja's<br />answer. I take up the one as told by a swamin who<br />belongs to the Manavala mamunugal lineage and who is <br />doing kainkaryam in MAmunigal sannidhi at Sri<br />Rangam), he had answered, 'Pathi may go to any place.<br />But can the pathni follow him everywhere?'<br /><br />The first part of ramanuja's answer does not negate<br />Lord's 'cosiness' with anya devas as an In-dweller in<br />them. <br /><br />The second part does not negate a 'pure' vaishnavite's<br />obsession with Narayana thiruvadi sambhandam.<br /><br />The entire thing does not negate what He can give as<br />'pathi' to His pathni and what anya devatas can give<br />-through Him.<br /><br /><br /><br />Ever at the feet of Narayana,<br />adiyal,<br />jayasree <br /><br />Quote of the mail:-<br />"urraikkindra mukkat pirAn yanE ennum,<br />urraikkindra thisai mugan yAnE ennum,<br />urraikkindra amararum yAnE ennum,<br />urraikkindra amara kOn yAnE ennum,<br />urraikkindra munivarum yAnE ennum,<br />urraikkindra mugil vannan yErakkollO?<br />Urraikkindra ulagathIriku en sollugEn<br />Urraikkindra en kOmaLa von kodikkE?<br />(Thiruvaimozhi 5.6.8)<br /><br /><br />(concluded)Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-90849877490259411202012-07-25T19:48:21.979+05:302012-07-25T19:48:21.979+05:30SB: - "wherever particular individual selves ...SB: - "wherever particular individual selves from the<br />four -faced Brahma downwards and particular<br />non-intelligent things from Prakruti downwards are<br />found mentioned in association with the particularly<br />characteristic attributes of the Supreme Self, -or<br />whatever the words denoting them (i.e., those<br />intelligent selves and non-intelligent things) are<br />seen to be grammatically equated with the words<br />denoting the Supreme Self: - in all such cases, what<br />is intended to be taught is the continued meditation<br />of the Brahman as forming the inner self of those<br />particular intelligent and non-intelligent entities."<br /><br />It is therefore concluded that Brahman (Narayanan) by<br />any other name (anya devata) is Narayanan only as long<br />as the worshipper meditates on the supreme attributes<br />of the Self in those forms. (Same is true of the<br />repeated reference of 'Vishalakshi' to Sita in Valmiki<br />Ramayana and Uma dEvi showing who the Brahman is, to<br />Indra in Kenopanishad -these two form a separate issue<br />and yet for the purpose of drawing a parallel, quoted<br />here)<br /><br />Even otherwise, he is said to worship Narayana in<br />those forms, in His being the bestower of benefits<br />through those forms.<br />But benefits are in accordance with what one asks for<br />/ meditates upon. (If liberation is what is desired,<br />the supreme form as Brahman. / Narayanan is<br />worshipped. If desires other than this are aimed at,<br />Brahman bestows them in those forms that have been<br />sanctioned as the ati-devatas for such desires. )<br /><br />This can be understood the following way.<br />If the water supply to my house is affected, I have to<br />approach the Municipality that is directly involved in<br />supplying water. I may have known the President of<br />India but I can not refer this problem to him taking<br />advantage of my friendship with him. Even if I refer<br />it to him, he can not supply the water to me directly<br />but only direct the Municipality to do that for me. <br />But if a person facing the gallows need a respite, he<br />can not get it by any means other than petitioning the<br />President for mercy. Because the President is directly<br />responsible for it.<br />Even though all governmental functions are done in the<br />'pleasure' of the president, even though the president<br />is technically the chief of all that happens, there<br />are events that he directly deals with. Everything<br />else happens in his name, by drawing the power from<br />him, but he does not do them by himself.<br />Taking this analogy to our discussion,<br />The Brahman equated with Narayana, is the chief of<br />all.<br />Those who approach him for the exceptional benefit<br />(like mercy petition) are taken note of / granted<br />benefits as He may deem the recipient fit to be.<br />For everything else the benefits are siphoned out<br />through his agents (Anya devatas) under his grace.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-51709277220569544142012-07-25T19:48:09.300+05:302012-07-25T19:48:09.300+05:30The second aspect forms the second category namely...The second aspect forms the second category namely<br />'forms in which deities give benefits' which is<br />discussed below.<br /><br />Forms: -<br /><br />A conflict of idea seems to arise if we refer to 1.4 <br />to 1.6 of Kenopanishad, which says 'this alone is<br />Brahman and not that which people worship'. <br />Bhagavad Ramanuja makes a reference to this passage<br />and writes thus:- (SB IV.4) <br />" If you say that by means of the scriptural passages<br />-' Not this which they worship'- (Keno) -the character<br />of being the object of meditation is denied (in<br />relation to the Brahman), it is replied that it can<br />not be so. The fact of the Brahman being the object<br />of meditation is not denied (herein), but the fact<br />that Brahman is distinct from the world is declared in<br />this passage. The meaning of this passage is this -"<br />this world which people here worship, - that is not<br />the Brahman. Know thou him alone to be the Brahman who<br />is not made out by speech and by whom speech is<br />brought into existence."<br /><br /> The worship that Brahman alone is supreme and the<br />goal of worship (which a devout Sri vaishnavite must<br />follow) is one and the worship of other forms and<br />names with or without the knowledge and expectation of<br />Inner reality is another.<br />In passages "Brahma Narayana:/ Shivascha Narayana:/<br />shakrascha Narayana;/ "( Na up 2) it is made out that<br />Narayana is worshipped in the worship of other<br />deities.<br />The controversial (if deemed so) passages (from<br />Svetahswathara) are given here which praise the other<br />forms as the Supreme and Ramanuja's reply also<br />follows.<br /><br />1) " Ekohi Rudro na dwiti'ya'ya tasthurya ema'n<br />loka'ne's'atah e's'ani'bhib/<br /> pratyangjana'stishth'ati sanchu koca'nta kale<br />samsr'jya vis'va bhuvana'ni gopa'h/ (sve 3.2)<br />(The supreme consciousness is described as Rudra.<br />Rudra is one only. The in-dwelling self watches the<br />deeds of men. He is the destroyer of sins and sorrows.<br />So he is called Rudra)<br /><br />2) 'Yo dEvAnam prabhavasch choptavascha vishwAdhipo<br />RudrO maharshi:/ (sve 3.4) <br />( the one who creates the dEvas and takes care of<br />them, the one who is the Lord of the worlds, the one<br />who is the Rudra capable of wiping out sorrows..)<br /><br />3) "yA tE rudra shivA tanu-raghOrApapakAshini/<br />tayA nastanuvA shantamayA girishantAbhichakashIhi:/ "<br />(sve 3.5)<br />(hey Rudra, the bestower of happiness to the world<br />from your abode of Kailash. Let that form by means of<br />which you destroy the sins to uplift into liberation,<br />brings all that is auspicious.)<br /><br />4) "yamishum girichanda hastE bibharshyasthavE/<br />shivAm girithrathAm kuru ma himsI: purusham jagat:/"<br />(sve 3.6)<br />(Seated in Kailash, you bestow happiness. Seated in<br />Kailash you protect those who surrender unto you.<br />Please use your weapon in your hand with utmost<br />compassion, without giving any suffering to the<br />people)<br /><br />5) "yO dEvAnAm prabhavaschOthbhavascha vishvAdhipo<br />rudrO maharshi:/<br />hiraNya garbham pashyata jayamanam sa nO buddhyA<br />shubhayA samyunaktu/ ( swe 4.12)<br />(The one who creates the dEvas and makes them<br />flourish, the one who is the Lord of all the worlds,<br />the one who is Rudra, the destroyer of sorrows, the<br />one who sees things beyond, who has seen the birth of<br />HiraNyagarbha, let Him give us best of knowledge.)<br /><br />Rudra as explained in the above passages is none other<br />than Brahman / Narayana. To substantiate this, let me<br />quote the final conclusion of Ramanuja to chapter 1 of<br />Brahma sutras.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-18173751556118104382012-07-25T19:47:30.469+05:302012-07-25T19:47:30.469+05:30To continue this thread,
BS (3.3.43)
" On a...To continue this thread, <br />BS (3.3.43) <br />" On account of the abundance of indicatory marks (the<br />Narayana -anuvaka deals with the object of worship in<br />all the meditations); for, it (indicatory mark) is<br />stronger (than the contxt). This also (has been stated<br />by Jaimini)."<br />"The Taiitrriya text, immediately after the Dahara<br />-vidya, declares in the folowing way: " 'The<br />thousand-headed God, whoses eyes see every thing..who<br />is Narayana, the Imperishable, supreme Master' etc (Ma<br />XI.1). Here the doubt is raised whether the<br />meditation, as being identical with meditation<br />previously introduced, describes attributes which are<br />inculcated in that vidya, or whether it describes<br />those attributes of the Supreme self to be included in<br />all the meditations as enjoined in all the upanishads.<br />The opponent favours the former because of the<br />context; for in the previous section (anuvaka 10) the<br />meditation on the small ether is introduced as the<br />subject matter: 'The small space free from all evil,<br />the abode of the Supreme: within that is a small space<br />free from sorrow . What is in that should be mediated<br />upon' (Ma XI.7)<br /> The Sutra-kara refutes this view and declares:<br />'on account of abundance of indicatory marks'. This<br />section of Mahanarayanopanishad has come just to<br />declare the characteristics of the supreme self, who<br />is the object of meditation, in all meditations. The<br />supreme being is denoted in all those meditations as<br />Akshara, Shiva, Shambhu, Para brahman, Paramjyothi<br />etc. Finally, the same entity is here declared to be<br />Narayana. There is abundance of authoritative marks to<br />prove that Narayana alone is the object of worship in<br />all meditations. Here the word 'linga' means symbol,<br />sign or indicatory mark. There are many passages which<br />contain indicatory marks. Such passages have,<br />according to Purva-Mimamsa, greater force than<br />context." <br /><br />To summarize, worship of Brahman alone is one thing<br />and worship of deities in names other than Narayana is<br />another, though the second one is further categorized<br />into two, namely (1) deities like Vayu etc and<br />atidevathas of sacrifices etc which are capable of<br />giving specific benefits by the strength of Brahman<br />present in them and (2) deities in whose name Brahman<br />is worshipped as in the case of Akshara, shiva etc.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-19428021754940942152012-07-25T19:47:22.082+05:302012-07-25T19:47:22.082+05:30Q (3) Does not the above-drawn conclusion undermin...Q (3) Does not the above-drawn conclusion undermine<br />the Supremacy of the Supreme one?<br /><br />A:- No, if we look at the following passages.<br />BS (3.2.39 & 40) :- <br />"Jaimini (thinks), for the same reasons(viz,<br />scriptural; authority and possibility), that religious<br />work (is what brings about the fruits of actions)'<br />"But Badarayana (thinks) the former (i.e., the Lord as<br />the bestower of the fruits of actions), on account of<br />His being declared to be cause (of the fruits of<br />actions)"<br />(BS cont'd)> <br />"the word 'but' refutes the view of the previous<br />sutra. Badarayana maintains that the supreme Person is<br />the bestower of the fruits of all actions. Scriptural<br />texts like "Let him who is desirous of prosperity <br />offer a white animal to Vayu.. and Vayu lead him to<br />prosperity (Tai SaII.i.1) show that the deities<br />worshipped bestow the results of the sacrifices <br />through which they are worshipped. But ultimately it<br />is the Lord, abiding in Vayu etc. as their inner self,<br />who, being pleased with the devotion of the<br />sacrificer, bestows on him the results: 'Offerings and<br />pious works, all these He bears, who is the nave of<br />the Universe. He is Agni Vayu: He is the Sun and the<br />moon' (Ma I.6.7). "He who dwells in Vayu? of whom Vayu<br />is the body' etc. (Br III.vii.7) Smrti also says the<br />same thing: "whichever divine form a devotee wishes to<br />worship.. and obtains from it the results he desires,<br />as ordained by Me" (Gita, VIII. 21-22). Giving up all<br />this teaching, where is the need to imagine an<br />'apurva'?"<br /><br />Giving up all this teaching, may I ask how can a sri<br />vaishnavite, an ardent devotee of Sriman Narayana,<br />denounce anya deva aradhana?<br />If he denounces it, does it not amount to 'dhooshaNai'<br />of the Brahman to attain whom is his supreme desire?<br />What he must do instead is to renounce every kind of<br />desire (anya-Asai) which is other than the desire to<br />attain Him. (sarva dharmAn paridhyajya..)<br />He must denounce 'anya Asai' and not anya deva<br />Aradhanai. Because, I repeat, that is akin to<br />'apachAram' to Narayana as not willing to accept His<br />other 'qualities' like His ability to be in all bodies<br />(read deities) and bestow whatever the jiva asks for.<br />This must have been the original import of the<br />teachings of the Acharyas, but as has always happened<br />we have clung to the shell and missed the sap.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-413505855692079082012-07-25T19:46:20.600+05:302012-07-25T19:46:20.600+05:30To throw more light on this refer BS (1.1.2)
&quo...To throw more light on this refer BS (1.1.2)<br /><br />"An action like meditation, which is enjoined, should<br />have the result of a particular nature and quality,<br />and we have to find this from other laudatory<br />statements, just as in the case of other Vedic<br />injunctions. In texts like 'He who desires Heaven must<br />perform Ashwametha sacrifice,' we do not have any<br />description of heaven; we have to gather it from<br />others statements like 'where there is neither heat<br />nor cold nor suffering' etc. Again in texts like 'he<br />shall perform the nocturnal sacrifices' no mention is<br />made of the result of such sacrifices, but later the<br />texts say, 'those who perform these sacrifices attain<br />eminence'. Similarly the result of mediation on<br />Brahman, which is prescribed by the scriptures, is the<br />attainment of Brahman has to be known from texts like<br />'He who knows Brahman attains the Highest' (Tai II.i)<br />The nature and attributes of Brahman also have to be<br />gathered from similar other texts."<br /><br />The summary so far is that different deities are<br />capable of giving different benefits. Even the same<br />deity (like Indra) must be worshipped in different<br />ways to enable him give you different benefits<br />depending on what forms and for what purpose you are<br />worshipping him.<br />It is true of Brahman who is equated to Narayana<br />(assumption -1 & 2)<br />If it be said that Brahman is capable of 'giving<br />anything and everything,' we quote Ramanuja as<br />following (SB -1.1)<br />"The passage which makes known the result of worship<br />of the Brahman, viz, 'shoshnutE sarvAn KAAMAAN saha<br />brahmana vipaschita (tai up II.i.i) speaks also of the<br />infinitude of the qualities possessed by the Highest<br />Brahman who is intelligent. (The prose order of this<br />sentence runs thus)-'vipaschitA BrahmanA sarvAn kAmAn<br />samashnutE' The word 'kAmA' is derived from the root<br />'kam' to covet and means that which is covetable,i.e.,<br />auspicious qualities. The meaning (of the passage<br />accordingly) is that he (the successful worshipper)<br />attains along with the (intelligent) Brahman all those<br />(auspicious) qualities. The word 'with' (according to<br />Panini) (is used) to bring out prominently the<br />(possession of) qualities (by the Brahman) as it is<br />brought out in connection with the Dahara-vidya, viz,<br />"what exists within that (small space inside the<br />heart) that has to be sought after'. (chhand VIII.1.1)<br />That, between worship and its result, there is a<br />similarity of nature, is proved conclusively by the<br />scriptural passage which says - ' of whatever nature a<br />man's worship is in this world, of that same nature<br />that man becomes after death'. (chhand III.14.1)'<br /><br />To understand this further let me quote the footnote<br />on Dahara -vidya.<br />" Dahara -vidya is that vidya or form of worshipping<br />the supreme Brahman, which consists in meditating on<br />Him as dwelling in the small ethereal space within the<br />heart. In connection with this vidya or form of<br />worship, the Brahman who has to be meditated upon is<br />declared in the context to be the 'Self who is devoid<br />of sin, is free from old age, free from death, free<br />from sorrow, free from hunger, free from thirst and<br />desires the Truth and wills the Truth."<br /><br />In summary, if Brahman is meditated upon, one attains<br />Brahman along with the auspicious qualities of Brahman<br />and nothing less and nothing more, as 'there is<br />nothing higher than or different from Him' (sve III.9)<br />To apply this to the issues in question, (remembering<br />the assumptions we have taken up) meditation on<br />Narayana for the sake of attaining Him (moksha) gives<br />one nothing less and nothing more. The supreme wish of<br />moksham is granted by Him and not the lesser wishes.<br />Because (also) craving for lesser wishes is anathema<br />to the one desirous of Moksha.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-32882390583773183572012-07-25T19:46:04.585+05:302012-07-25T19:46:04.585+05:30Q (2): -
"What is the difference between Anya...Q (2): -<br />"What is the difference between Anya dEva upasana and<br />upasana of the Brahman and what happens in Anya dEva<br />upasana?<br /><br />For better understanding, let us divide the discussion<br />here under 2 topics, phalam and form.<br />(1) what kinds of benefits are accrued in different<br />kinds of upAsana and <br />(2) in what forms deities receive the upAsana and<br />give the benefits.<br />The Phalam factor: -<br />BS (3.3.43) > The context is to find justification for<br />different kinds oblations for the same Brahman<br />" Texts mention a separate fruit of the meditation<br />which is apart from the fruit of the sacrifice itself.<br /> Thus the quality of possessing greater strength is<br />the fruit, which is different from that of the<br />sacrificial rites. What is this greater strength? It<br />is non- obstruction of the fruit of sacrifice. The<br />fruit of a sacrifice might be obstructed by the fruit<br />of some other powerful performance. Thus the<br />mediations on the Udgitha (OM), though dependent on<br />auxiliaries to sacrifices, have different fruits from<br />those of the sacrifices" ?.<br />?..The oblations to the Supreme Self is also different<br />for different reasons. <br />"He is to be meditated on in His essential nature in<br />the first place, and then there is the repetition of<br />the meditation with a view to realizing His auspicious<br />attributes.<br />This case is analogous to that of sacrificial<br />oblations. There is the text (Tai sam II.iii.6.2); 'He<br />has to offer "PurodAsha' to Indra, the ruler' etc.<br />Though Indra is one god, oblations are separately<br />offered to Indra, the ruler, the supreme ruler, and<br />the self-ruler according to his different capacities.<br />This principle is established in the Samkarshana<br />Khanda: 'as the deities are different, the oblations<br />are different'."Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-77382872995062195232012-07-25T19:44:46.445+05:302012-07-25T19:44:46.445+05:30Q: - What are devatas?
Do the scriptures that we h...Q: - What are devatas?<br />Do the scriptures that we have taken as pramAnA speak<br />of devatas?<br /><br />A: - AitarEya Upanishad and Chhandogya upanishad<br />elaborately trace the birth of worlds, the presiding<br />deities of pancha bhoothas and the deities<br />(ati-devathas) for senses.<br />The realms of Bhu, Bhuvah and Suvah as being<br />controlled by the deities, Fire, Air and Sun<br />respectively are being spoken not only by AitharEya<br />but also Taiittriya upanishad. There may be other<br />vEdanthic texts too, but in my limited knowledge I am<br />able to quote only these.<br /><br />Brhadaranyaka Upanishad (III ii 2-9) (prAnavo vai<br />garbha?)<br />lists out 14 ati-devathas for 14 sense perceptions<br />that include apart from natural forces, gods like<br />Vishnu, Prajapathi, Brihaspathi, Kshetrajna, Indra,<br />Death, Moon, Rudra and Ishwara<br /><br />Taking into consideration assumption (1) and (3), it<br />is deduced that Brahman had pervaded all the deities<br />-something asserted by Aitareya too while detailing<br />how worlds were created.<br /><br />But worship / upasana in those days seemed to be in<br />the form of sacrifices and Homas.<br />To cite a case, let me draw your attention to Rama's<br />upasana of Sriman Narayana, (quoted from Valmiki<br />Ramayana) prior to his Pattabhisheka, which was in the<br />form of conducting a Homa and meditation.<br /><br />In his commentary on the first aphorism of the first<br />chapter of Brahma Sutras, Ramanuja concludes that an<br />inquiry into sacrificial actions as commanded by the<br />Karma Khandam of the vEdas must precede an inquiry<br />into Brahman. He takes up discussion on various<br />sacrifices to ascertain whether the fruits from them<br />are inferior or superior to the fruits derived from<br />meditating on Brahman and Brahman alone. (We will<br />incorporate this at suitable contexts)<br />For the sake of knowing who / what these devatas are,<br />we, hereby take the liberty to equate different<br />deities as being associated with sacrificial actions<br />as bestowers of fruits of those sacrifices. <br /><br />It is presumed that just as how Brahman is worshiped<br />as having form (assumption 3), the ati-devathas also<br />came to be worshipped as having forms. The primary<br />Ati-devathas (as mentioned earlier) namely Agni, Vayu<br />and Sun are seen incorporated with different deities<br />in agama sashtras and the variations have grown<br />manifold down the ages. As we have not taken up this<br />for our discussion, suffice it to say that discussion<br />on ati-devathas and the fruits of sacrifices are<br />inter-changeable with Anya devathas and the power of<br />jurisdiction of Anya devathas, (respectively) as we<br />know today.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-10688026549119580452012-07-25T19:44:23.315+05:302012-07-25T19:44:23.315+05:30The issues are
(1) If one is desirous of getting s...The issues are<br />(1) If one is desirous of getting specific benefits<br />(phalam), one goes to worship anya devathas.<br />(2) Can a sreivaishnavite who has done sharanagathi<br />worship anya devathas?<br /><br /><br />Sources.<br /><br /> As vEdas and upanishads are the chief pramAnAs, I<br />have based my arguments on these alone while relying<br />heavily on Sri Bhashya of Ramanuja. The<br />transliteration of the Sri Bhashya for the first 32<br />aphorisms of the 1st chapter of Brahma sutras (by<br />Rangacharya & M.B. Varadaraja Aiyangar, 1961 edition<br />of The Educational Publishing co) which will be quoted<br />as 'SB' and the book 'Brahma sutras, Sri Bhashya' <br />written by Swami Vireswarananda and Swami Adidevananda<br />which will be quoted as 'BS', are extensively quoted<br />in this mail. May Emperumanar guide me in my 'avA' of<br />obliging his foremost commandment of the six<br />kainkaryas in the best possible way.<br /><br />The assumptions<br /><br />The indestructible and undeniable assumptions we take<br />up are as follows: -<br />(1) Aphorism 3.2.36 of Brahma sutra: -<br />"By this (Brahman) everything is pervaded, as is known<br />from scriptural statements etc, regarding Brahman's<br />extent"<br />BS: - " 'whatever is seen or heard in this world is<br />pervaded inside and outside by Narayana' (Ma xii.5)<br /><br />(2) Narayanopanishad (2): - <br />" Narayana yEvEdam sarvam yad bhotham yachcha bhavyam/<br /> nishkalangO niranjanO nirvikalpO nirAkhyAth: shudhO<br />dEva<br /> yEkO nArAyanO na dwithIyOsthi kaschith/"<br />(Everything is Narayanan who is nish-kaLangan,<br />nir-vikalpan, niranjan and shuddhan. He is ONE without<br />a second)<br /><br />(3) Aphorism 3.2.32 of Brahma Sutra: -<br />" (Brahman is depicted as having size) for the sake of<br />easy comprehension (i.e. upasana) just like (four)<br />feet."<br /><br />BS: - "The statements describing Brahman as having<br />four feet or sixteen digits are meant for the sake of<br />upAsana or meditation. Brahman which is infinite as<br />declared by texts like, "Truth, Knowledge, Infinite<br />is Brahman" can not be limited. The texts which<br />declare such limitation are meant only for meditation,<br />even as Brahman is imagined to have the organs of<br />speech, nose, eyes and ear as Its four feet (Chhan<br />iii. Xviii.2) for the sake of upAsana."<br /><br />Now arguments.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-34169432015473247942012-07-25T19:43:43.611+05:302012-07-25T19:43:43.611+05:30// if you are such a devotee of narayana then you ...// if you are such a devotee of narayana then you shoudl not even worship anjaneya, chaktrathzhvar, lakshmi , garudazhvar. do you think these gods are better than shiva. ridiculous.//<br /><br />This needs a very detailed answer which you can read in my old post on anya devatha aradhana.<br />The link is <br /><br />http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/oppiliappan/archives/jul04/msg00124.html<br /><br />I think I can re-post that article here.<br /><br />(cont'd)Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-59912197676976318732012-07-25T19:41:34.211+05:302012-07-25T19:41:34.211+05:30Dear Mr Shankar,
I have explained enough in the ...Dear Mr Shankar, <br /><br />I have explained enough in the previous comments which answers your comment. I request you to re-read them. <br /><br />One clarification that I want to say is that I am not writing these views after knowing the Vaishnavite perspective. These views arise when you analyse the views of Vedantha with a logical mind. Who is Brahman, Why Narayana floats in snake bed and why Nataraja whirls in dance, from where first creation came and where Rudra fits in - like this, many facets are there to be studied. If you unravel them you will know that Narayana is the progenitor from whose Naabhi, cosmos expands. He holds in Himself the Cosmic egg in which all the three acts of creation, sustenance and destruction take place. <br /><br />The Cosmic egg theory is not told for Shiva / Rudra. <br />But the expansion of the cosmos can be understood only by the dance of Shiva. <br /><br />The Cosmic chakra has both Nataraja and Yoga Narasimha as the two sides of it - signifying the external activity and the internal rulership. It means in the created world or once after the process of creation has commenced, these two deities (Shiva and Vishnu) become the two sides of the same coin or the alternating rulers in the process. <br /><br />Like this our Dharma gives beautiful and simple comparisons to understand Godhead. The tragedy of our times is that we fail to understand these concepts. The one God in different facets has been explained in a limited way in my recent post on Dark Matter.<br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/07/dark-matter-is-7th-wind-of-seven-wind.html<br /><br />But when you say Brahman (the one without a second), it signifies Narayana only and not any other God. This is the revelation of Vedas which no one can negate or question. The Brihat nature (huge and growing) of Brahman is not told for any other God - but to the growing cosmos from the umbilical chord of Narayana. <br /><br />cont'dJayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-17123056592049002252012-07-21T23:21:40.977+05:302012-07-21T23:21:40.977+05:30this is a reply to ms.jayasree. she says adi shan...this is a reply to ms.jayasree. she says adi shankara told mahavishnu as brahmam. yes that is correct. but you are seeing only one side of the coin. see prachnothara ratnamalika by adi shankara and what he explains as "who is god" he says sankaranarayana. he conjoins both. if your vaishnavite text says narayana as para brahmam, shaiva scripture says shiva as para brahmam!! if you are such a devotee of narayana then you shoudl not even worship anjaneya, chaktrathzhvar, lakshmi , garudazhvar. do you think these gods are better than shiva. ridiculous. i worship both vishnu shiva and vishnu. they are like father and mother. understand!shankarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12500425894181757219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-25969664798745601952012-03-10T15:34:27.608+05:302012-03-10T15:34:27.608+05:30The history of TamilNadu is completely lost with t...The history of TamilNadu is completely lost with the invasion of Malik Kafur. It is an irrefutable fact thet so called Tanjore Brahmins completely obviliated into darkness until 1801AD when the British established themselves at Kumbakonam.Even Now there is a misconception that Siruthondar, Thirugnanasambandhar and St.Arunagirinathar are all non Brhamins.The Nambudiris were conveniently been portrayed as Choliyas based on Keralotpathi but they were Gauda Saraswath Brahmins. It is in this context that Guru Parampara stories had to be looked into. While we are having some authentic information about Sri Madhvacharya we dont have such information about Sri Sankara and Sri Ramanuja. The first major inscription about Sri Sankara is Vijaya Kanda Gopalan of Telugu Cholas in thirteenth century AD. It is a fact that the history of Deccan starts only from Vijayanagar Empire since the lifestyle of people of Pre Malik Kafur invasion in Tamil Nadu is completely different from Post Malik Kafur invasion. From the Vira Rajendra's inscription we find that Sankara's philosophy was known as Saririka Mimamsa and Not Advaita and the best commentaries prevalent in Tamil Nadu was that of Prabhakara and Sadhanendra Saraswathi. This dispels the story of Yadava Prakasa and Advaidam. Normally exploits of one persons may be extrapolated into that of earlier person. By rejecting historicity of Sri Sankara and Sri Ramanuja does not mean that questioning the authenticity. No. Nobody can deny the contribution made THEM to Indian culture. We plead that please respect their doctrine and intellectual contribution and restict yourself with glorification of their exploits. There are only two options. If you accept the historicity of THEM then please ignore the history of Tamilnadu upto Vijayanagar. This is the peculiar even with Alberuni. It is very strange that Alberuni never mention about Cholas and Chalukyas though both were at zenith at the time of Ghazni. The plunder of Somnath would have echoed in inscriptions. But surprisingly no evidence on both the accounts. As a student of history I find that likes and dislikes of people are given as history and dispassionately feel that either the Inscriptions of Tamil Nadu upto the beginning of Vijayanagara Empire are false or those issues which could not be corroborated with the inscriptions are extrapolated. This needs deep scrutiny.Tejaswini VembuyriaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-13776675939376174522011-07-20T12:57:55.291+05:302011-07-20T12:57:55.291+05:30Dear Mr Nagarajan,
I am happy to note that you co...Dear Mr Nagarajan,<br /><br />I am happy to note that you come to my blog to clear your doubts on religious issues. This kind of feed back increases my resolve to write on sanathana Dharma. <br /><br />For your specific question on why Vaishnavites do not worship any other God, (concept of மறந்தும் புறம் தொழா மாந்தர்) did you read the link I gave from Tamilhindu? Please read it and also the 346 comments under that. Nearly 300 comments in that post contain almost all available thoughts on this issue and recorded by 2 knowledgeable persons Mr Gandharvan and Mr Sarang. You may get many doubts solved if you read those comments. I am giving the link here:- <br /><br />http://www.tamilhindu.com/2010/02/creation-theory-2/Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-28024870576998281532011-07-20T01:16:16.172+05:302011-07-20T01:16:16.172+05:30Yes, We Saivites inherit the legacies of Adisankar...Yes, We Saivites inherit the legacies of Adisankara, Appayya Deekshithar, Bhagawan Nama Bhotendrar, Sreedhara Ayyaval, Sadhasiva Brahmendrar, Ramabhadra Deekshithar etc. and Thiyagaiyer, who had a staunch devotion for Rama had also sung krithis on Siva, Ambal and Ganapathi also. Not only them, Ramalinga swamigal, Thayumanavar who were born in other caste are also revered. In Thirupugazh Arunagirinathar addresses Murugan as "Perumale".<br /><br />Said that, I agree there is a difference in opinion and views in these two sidhanthas. As long as our aim is liberation/renunciation nothing matters. This is where, I think our Sanatana Dharma stands apart from other religions.<br /><br />Whenever I have any doubt on any religious issues, I use to search your blog. I will defnitely read the one which you have stated here.Thanks a lot..once again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-78566737617120421122011-07-20T00:13:04.075+05:302011-07-20T00:13:04.075+05:30Dear Mr Nagarajan.
I don't know the instances...Dear Mr Nagarajan.<br /><br />I don't know the instances from Koorathazwan's life as I concentrate only on philosophical issues. <br /><br />From your response I think I have not conveyed properly the philosophy behind the various Gods. Sometime I will write on this issue. Or if you want, you may browse the net for my name with a tag 'anya devatha aradhana' I have written a few articles on this topic in some yahoo groups.<br /><br />For the moment let me say this. Even Adhi Shankara has interpreted that Narayana is the Supreme Brahman. Vaishnavites stick to that whereas Shaivites do not. We can not influence them as this realization that Narayana is Supreme comes through births and by itself. There is a verse in Gita to this effect "Sarvam Vasudevam ithi". But such a person is rare to find. Even those who say so may not have realised this and said. So a person aiming for Liberation must move towards "Sarvam Vasudevam ithi" mindset.<br /><br />That is why Vaishnavites do not go to shiva temples. It does not mean hatred for Shiva. But it does mean that their quest for Parama padham will be hampered if they concentrate on other deities. They can go to Shiva temple and see Vasudevan in Him as per "Sarvam Vasudevam ithi". But that calls for a supreme form of concentration which is rare to get. So the easy way is to stick only to Narayana. <br /><br />As told in my previous comment all deities function like organs of the body with specific functions. You will understand this better through astrology wherein each planet represents specific significances and such significances are governed by specific deities. Among the deities, Narayana signifies Paramapadham. It is because deities also signify specific gunas or mix of gunas. Narayana signifies Suddha Sattwa and no other deity is characterized so. The one who concentartes on a deity gets embodied with the guna manifest in that deity. That is why staunch Vaishnavites do not go to any temple other than Narayana's. They do not even worship the female consort of Shiva as you have said. If you have seen someone doing that, it means they have not understood the philosophy properly.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-12961269808906748982011-07-19T23:18:17.927+05:302011-07-19T23:18:17.927+05:30Thanks a lot Mam. It is very kind of you that you ...Thanks a lot Mam. It is very kind of you that you took the trouble to clarify my doubts.<br /><br />Also, thankful if you could answer the following parts as well:<br /><br />His disciple Koorathazwan was convicted by a Chola King who had profound devotion for Lord Siva. In fact, Koorathazvan made a calumnious remark(Asti Dronam athaha param) about Lord Siva in the court of the king which enraged him.It seems that hatred was actually endorsed by Ramanuja. (Reference Paramacharya's Deivathin Kural-1st unit). Though Periyava Himself has told there that it was hard for Him to think that Koorathazhvan could have insulted Siva and His devotees. - <br /><br />Can you please throw light on this incident quoted..<br /><br />It is actually seen that most Iyengars traditionally hate saivites and avoid visiting Siva temples and even if they do, they use to worship only His consort, the Godess as she is Narayani.<br /><br />What is your take on the above practice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-52815184054388921742011-07-19T18:44:03.835+05:302011-07-19T18:44:03.835+05:302) The religious practice at that time was kaamya ...2) The religious practice at that time was kaamya –phalan oriented - for “kaamyaarththam” – for the sake of getting desired goals. Homas were done for mundane benefits and even for attaining Swarga. The general discourse at that time was moving away from the spiritual goal of Liberation. You will find repeated arguments against this tendency in Ramanuja's commentary to Brahma sutras. <br /><br />Ramanuja attempted to infuse a change in that discourse and advocated Renunciation for Liberation. In that context, none but Narayana could become the God to grant that to the devotee.<br /><br />One may argue that one can get Liberation by worshiping Shiva. It is true, but devotion to Narayana is different genre. Astrology explains this in better terms. You will find some astrological yogas explained in my article in this link<br />http://www.tamilhindu.com/2010/02/creation-theory-2/<br /><br /><br />A devotee of Shiva will become an ascetic in his last birth and attain Shivapadam and will not be reborn. Family pleasures are not ascribed to him. But a devotee of Vishnu will have all the riches and a family too in his last birth before he reaches Parama padam and not be born again. Shiva padam is in the created world whereas Parama padam is beyond the Created world. These are the differences between the 2 types of devotion (to Shiva and Vishnu)<br /><br />In the present day world, it is difficult for people to renounce all pleasures and that is why we don’t come across ardent shiva bhakthas who have renounced everything. Liberation through Shiva bhakthi is a difficult proposition compared to Vishnu bhakthi. For the present age of material aspirations, Vishnu bhakthi is the best way to aim for Liberation. <br /><br />By this, I want to make it clear that there was no clash of “Gods” in Hinduism. Depending on time, place and people’s mentality, these philosophies are brought to us through Divine manifestations of Acharyas. Adhi Shankara had no two opinions on the Supremacy of Narayana as Brahman. But his avathara had a different message for his time. His mission was to bring out a resurgence of Hinduism in the backdrop of non-vedic Buddhism and reestablish Hinduism to suit the mentality of different people. The classification as Shanmatha was a result of this mission. <br /><br />So we have to see these avatharas in the historical perspective and not mix them with nor lose sight of the spiritual goals of Hinduism.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-42613275917330991902011-07-19T18:43:50.387+05:302011-07-19T18:43:50.387+05:30Cont'd from above:-
//2.) As populists say, ...Cont'd from above:-<br /><br /><br />//2.) As populists say, Was Ramanuja averse to caste system and wanted to abolish it? If your answer is yes, Don't you think caste system is scientific and a wonderful division of labour by birth and not aimed to discriminate people by birth. Even Krishna says that He created four varnas. It is very interesting to note that Adisankara who said everything is ONE and spread Advaita, insisted on caste system since it is important practically. UNITY is important and not UNIFORMITY.//<br /><br /><br /><br />(2) Ramanuja saw only 2 categories - a devotee and a non- devotee or a Shudra and a Vipra. There was a popular saying in those times on this which you can find quoted in the commentary of “Acharya Hrudhayam” which is a revelation of Acharya’s mind (Ramanuja’s mind) written in the 13th century by Azakiya Manavalap perumal Nayanaar:- <br /><br />"na shudra bhavad bhaktha: vipraah bhaagavthah smruthaa:/<br />sarva varneshu te shudra yehya bhaktha Janardhane//"<br /><br />It means a devotee of God is not a Shudra. He will be a Vipra who is engaged in thoughts on God. The one who is not devoted to Janardhana, to whichever varna he may belong to will be considered as a Shudra only.<br /><br />Ramanuja worked on this view. Ramanuja was a historical necessity as that was the time <br />(1) when caste discrimination was there and <br />(2) religious practices were moving away from spiritual goals. These 2 separate historical facts that coexisted at that time created a need to set right both. Ramanuja fitted in. <br /><br />Let me explain you further.<br />As you said Varna was a scientific classification of people based on their inner make up for the purpose of division of labour. It did not hinder the spiritual progress of a person. But this system got vitiated after 1200 AD when the major kingdoms of Tamilnadu went downside. The complete wiping out of Vel kings such as Paari, Ori etc created a situation where the subjects of Vel kings came under the victorious Tamil kings. They were meted out step motherly treatment by the victorious people and kings. To understand this you have to wait till I bring this out in my Tamil blog on Tamizhan Dravidanaa.<br /><br />But to give a brief account of this here, 18 groups of artisans of Dwaraka and form other Indus sites were evacuated by Agasthya when the presently known Bet Dwaraka was submerged in 1500 BC. Agasthya brought them all to Tamilnadu and settled them in today's Tirunelveli, Coimbatore, Kerala, Mysore, Krishnagiri and Dharmapuri. The settlements went upto Kudremukh in Karnataka. <br /><br />These 18 groups were skilled in some handwork including pottery, metal work and smithy. Most MBCs of Tamilnadu today are the descendants of these people. Agasthya settled them under the Velir kings who were brought from Dwaraka. But these kings were never accepted by the Tamil kings. In contrast Tamil sangam poets accepted them for their benevolence. (Adhiyman whom Auvaiyaar praised was a Velir king.) Only these kings were given the status of கடை எழு வள்ளல்கள் (7 patrons of the last era) But when these king were wiped out by the Tamil kings, their subjects became orphaned in their own countries. Discrimination against them started at that time.<br /><br />Varna was not the reason for that discrimination. The domination of the powerful over the powerless (made so by loss of protector kings) was the cause of ill treatment. I will be bringing out these in my Tamil blog with proof.<br /><br />This is being said here to show that caste discrimination did exist at the time of Ramanuja but the causes for that discrimination were as stated above. In such a background, Ramanuja's pill for the ills was devotion to Narayana. By becoming a devotee, he made sure that they came to enjoy a new status as Bhagavathas that could not be degraded by others. He got 2 fruits in one stroke. <br /><br />(cont'd)Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-74499610429205132192011-07-19T18:36:21.488+05:302011-07-19T18:36:21.488+05:30Dear Mr Nagarajan,
Thanks for writing.
Each ques...Dear Mr Nagarajan, <br /><br />Thanks for writing.<br />Each question you have raised requires a separate and detailed explanation and be fit to be posted as separate articles. Anyway let me attempt to write in brief here. <br /><br /><br /><br />//1.) Did Ramanuja actually propagate Siva hatred? It is actually seen that most Iyengars traditionally hate saivites and avoid visiting Siva temples and even if they do, they use to worship only His consort, the Godess as she is Narayani.//<br /><br /><br />(1) Ramanuja did not propagate hatred for Shiva. He as one who has understood the concept of how One God is manifest as Many, stood by that One God, also known as Brahman. He propagated the worship of Narayana because Narayana has been identified as Brahman by the Vedas (note - it is not the four faced brahma, one of the Trinities whose existence becomes tenable in the created world. Whereas Brahman is the Uncreated, all encompassing One and the Only One.) and interpreted so, by the acharyas of all the 3 sects. So when you know who the Supreme God is, would you go behind others whose manifestations occur as subsequent manifestations of that One Supreme God? <br /><br />This can be explained in another way also. Suppose it becomes known that you are a close relative of the President of India, members of the Government machinery will be quick to attend to your needs. That happens for the devotee of Narayana. You will read a sloka to this effect in the Pattabhisheka khanda of Valmiki Ramayana, where Valmiki says that deities such as Vinayaka will stay put in the homes of the Rama bhakthan to bless him. <br /><br />Rama or Narayana is like the brain, other deities are like the different organs of the body entrusted with specific roles. It is at the behest of the brain, the entire functioning of the body happens. You recognize the Brain as Supreme and other functions as part of that Supreme, and the whole body works as a single unit. Your knowledge of the Supremacy of the brain makes you understand how the system works and what you must do in times of crisis. The same applies to understanding Narayana as the Supreme. When a devotee of Narayana has an advantage like that of a relative of the President of India, would he go for identifying himself in any other way? <br /><br /><br />(cont'd)Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-54554365185526290922011-07-18T22:29:54.836+05:302011-07-18T22:29:54.836+05:30Hi Jayasree, Before asking this question, I would ...Hi Jayasree, Before asking this question, I would like to tell you that a.) I am a smartha by birth and I worship Siva and Vishnu with equal devotion. Adisankara, Himself has told that it is a sin to discriminate them and attribute superiority to one deity. We all chant Rama nama the Taraka Mantra and write SriRamaJayam.<br /><br />b.) I haven't read Nagasamy's book and also the book written on the rebuttal.<br /><br />It is believed that Ramanuja is a avtar or Adisesha. He propagated Vaishnavism and Visishtadwaitha sidhanta and also hatred for the devotion to Siva. His disciple Koorathazwan was convicted by a Chola King who had profound devotion for Lord Siva. In fact, Koorathazvan made a calumnious remark(Asti Dronam athaha param) about Lord Siva in the court of the king which enraged him.It seems that hatred was actually endorsed by Ramanuja. (Reference Paramacharya's Deivathin Kural-1st unit). Though Periyava Himself has told there that it was hard for Him to think that Koorathazhvan could have insulted Siva and His devotees.<br /><br />Now my questions are:<br /><br />1.) Did Ramanuja actually propagate Siva hatred? It is actually seen that most Iyengars traditionally hate saivites and avoid visiting Siva temples and even if they do, they use to worship only His consort, the Godess as she is Narayani.<br /><br />2.) As populists say, Was Ramanuja averse to caste system and wanted to abolish it? If your answer is yes, Don't you think caste system is scientific and a wonderful division of labour by birth and not aimed to discriminate people by birth. Even Krishna says that He created four varnas. It is very interesting to note that Adisankara who said everything is ONE and spread Advaita, insisted on caste system since it is important practically. UNITY is important and not UNIFORMITY.<br /><br />I was waiting to get it clarified for a long time. I have great reverence for Ramanujacharya and I pray to Him to forgive me, If my views are misconceived.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-84054921527035113062010-04-27T03:05:15.511+05:302010-04-27T03:05:15.511+05:30Dear Jayasree
A good post. Recently "Garudas...Dear Jayasree<br /><br />A good post. Recently "Garudaswamy" has mentioned about this in his "Panchajanyam" magazine. I'm yet to read both the books. <br /><br />These books are first to be publised based on Srirangam Inscriptions. As Koil Ozhugu is just brought out to the mass (thanks to Srivaishnavasri), Dr.Nagaswamy has cleverly utilised those based on his years of experiences in the Tamil epigraphy.<br /><br />Its so sad that Acharyan's like Ramanuja are just easily questioned by this mere historians. He immediately drew his conclusions saying that there are no inscriptions for Ramanuja being a social reformer / administrator of Srirangam temple. Kaalam inimael Badhil sollum. <br /><br />Thanks that atleast we've Genius like A.Krishnamachari to raise the voice against such people. <br /><br />Would like to know more about the books if you've read them. <br /><br />AdiyEn<br />Ramanuja dhasan VeeraraghavanVeeraraghavanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758761288585085817noreply@blogger.com