tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post8527310995156489420..comments2024-03-18T22:56:06.696+05:30Comments on Jayasree Saranathan: Paari of Parambu hills and Paari (caste) of Kashmir – Are they same?Jayasree Saranathan http://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-67250951251687706822022-07-29T14:22:01.966+05:302022-07-29T14:22:01.966+05:30@Sathyashree
Passage of Time erases or modifies l...@Sathyashree<br /><br />Passage of Time erases or modifies lot of things. Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-32864285899592298662022-07-28T14:26:59.849+05:302022-07-28T14:26:59.849+05:30Dear Jayashree ma'am, thanks for putting up th...Dear Jayashree ma'am, thanks for putting up the discussion here!! Loved reading about the Yadava lineage and their migration. I, myself come from that community situated in Tamilnadu, hailing from Sivaganga regions of Aakavayal and Devakottai. But I have a specific question, if they were Vedic, why don't they know Sanskrit, or practice Vedic practices? I don't feel like we have any unique custom/prctice in place that distinguishes us from others.. Or even the trace of who we are, is left with us.. Sathyashreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800321560949469180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-39343375140057170312018-08-09T19:00:24.362+05:302018-08-09T19:00:24.362+05:30Velirs mother tongue is also tamil athiyaman nedum...Velirs mother tongue is also tamil athiyaman neduman anchi who is also velir one among kadai ezhu vallal gave avai grandma rare gooseberry which can extend ones life period.he gave to her so that tamil can live longer. May be before they left tamil may be their mother tongue and tamil may be one and one language in india at that period.Raghuram Ilangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13676651176997571580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-38692728238820610172018-08-09T18:57:33.031+05:302018-08-09T18:57:33.031+05:30Aa means cow in tamil, Ayar means cowherder kings....Aa means cow in tamil, Ayar means cowherder kings. Not tax in tamil ayars are origins of tamil who ruled kaniyakumari to tranvancore with pothigaimalai(courtallam sengottai) as one of its its boundary from early sangam period to 14 th century.their house sigil is elephant.they were mentioned as first tamil rulers hence they named konars ko means cow,siva and king. Velirs are from north but not ayars.Raghuram Ilangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13676651176997571580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-52698415301067327862013-06-03T12:53:56.035+05:302013-06-03T12:53:56.035+05:30Thanks Aparna.
'Chilla kallu' is how the ...Thanks Aparna.<br /><br />'Chilla kallu' is how the Kashmiris call the first snow fall. It is Tamil word "kal" (stone)which is cold (chillu)(pieces of hail / snow) This word Chillu is not new or colloquial Tamil, as Andal uses the word 'chillenRu' in Thiruppavai. <br /><br />Similarly there is a place called "Sillahalla" in Nilgiris which was in news recently for the power station that is proposed there. Nilgiris is also a cold place experiencing snow fall.<br /><br />Tamil was the original language of mankind many 1000s of years ago when mankind was confined to the South of the equator. I have written many articles in Tamil connection to the Incas, Polynesian and Indonesian islands.<br /><br />Check this link for tamil remnant in Africa. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk&feature=youtu.be<br /><br />Check this website for a pic of a Chidambaram Deekshithar as recorded in 1909 for his African looks, Please note Chidambaram Deekshithars have a tradition of not marrying outside their sect. <br /><br />http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Dikshitar.JPG/416px-Dikshitar.JPG<br /><br />Complete article in:<br /><br />http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2011/07/chidambaram-temple-podu-dikshitars.htmlJayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-42418769564520670932013-06-03T10:31:29.472+05:302013-06-03T10:31:29.472+05:30I have heard a few Kashmiri surnames that seem to ...I have heard a few Kashmiri surnames that seem to sound like tamil words. For example the surname Kadalbaju of kashmiri origin means near the sea. Kadal in tamil means sea.K.S.Aparnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389506962375770574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-84099655039492708912013-04-14T14:44:19.560+05:302013-04-14T14:44:19.560+05:30velirs are not vellalars... velirs are yadavas kin...velirs are not vellalars... velirs are yadavas king yadu lineage chandravanshi kshatriyasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-49971315807074684242013-04-14T14:36:02.272+05:302013-04-14T14:36:02.272+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-33161117519780001222013-04-14T14:34:07.452+05:302013-04-14T14:34:07.452+05:30velirs are not vellalars...velirs are yadavas...வே...velirs are not vellalars...velirs are yadavas...வேளிரும் வேளாளரும்<br /><br />வேளிரே வேளாளர் என்று சொல் ஒப்புமையை ஒட்டி எழுந்த தவறான நம்பிக்கை தமிழக வரலாற்று ஆய்வாளரிடையே நிலவி வருகின்றது. இந்நம்பிக்கை பெரும்பாலான ஆய்வாளர்களுக்கு கேட்பதற்கு இனிதாக, எழுதுதற்குச் சுகமானதாக இருப்பதால் இதனை விசாரணைக்கு உள்ளாக்க அவர்கள் ஒருபோதும் தயாரில்லை. சங்க காலத் தமிழ் வேந்தர்கள், மருத நிலத் தலைமக்களாவர். ‘வேளாண்மையாகிய உழவுத் தொழில்’ செய்துவந்த, மருதநிலக் குடிகளான வேளாளரிலிருந்தே வேந்தர்கள் தோன்றினர் என்பது இவர்களின் நம்பிக்கை. ஆனால் வேளிர்களை வேளாண்மையுடன் தொடர்புபடுத்த முடியாது என ஆர். பூங்குன்றன் பின்வருமாறு கூறுகிறார்:<br /><br />“வேளாண்மைக்கும் வேளிர்க்குமிடையில் உள்ள தொடர்பு பல படிநிலைகளைக் கொண்டது. வேளிர்கள் உண்மையில் வேளாண்மையில் ஈடுபட்டது மிகவும் பிற்பட்ட வரலாறு. சங்க இலக்கியத்தில் வேளிருடைய ஊர்களில் நெல் விளைச்சல் மிகுந்திருந்தது என்று கூறுவது கொண்டு வேளிர்களை வேளாளர்களின் முன்னோர் என்று கருதுவது பொருத்தமுடையதாக இல்லை. வேளிர்கள் கால்நடை வளர்ப்பினராகவும் போர் மறவராகவும் இருந்துள்ளனர். சங்க இலக்கியத்தில் வேளிர்க்கும் கால்நடை வளர்ப்பிற்குமிடையில் உள்ள தொடர்பு பற்றிய சான்றுகள் குறைவாகவே கிடைக்கின்றன. ஆனால் வேளிர் பற்றிப் பின்னாளில் கூறப்படும் மரபுத் தோற்றக் கதை அவர்களின் தொழிலைச் சுட்டுகின்றது. வேளிர்கள் அனைவரும் தங்களை யாதவர்கள் என்று கூறிக்கொள்வது கால்நடை வளர்ப்புக்கும் அவர்களுக்கும் இடையில் உள்ள தொடர்பினைச் சுட்டும்.” (தொல்குடி - வேளிர் - அரசியல், செங்கம் நடுகற்கள் - ஓர் ஆய்வு, பக். 93-94.)<br /><br /><br />துவாரகையை ஆண்ட கண்ணனின் வழி வந்தவரே வேளிர் என்பதைப் புறநானூற்றுப் பாடல் ஒன்றும் நச்சினார்க்கினியரின் தொல்காப்பியப் பாயிர உரைக்குறிப்பும் புலப்படுத்துகின்றன. எனவே பூங்குன்றன் அவர்கள் கருதுவதுபோல் வேளிரை யது குலத்துடன் தொடர்புபடுத்தலாமேயன்றி வேளாண்மை செய்யும் குடியுடன் தொடர்புபடுத்த முடியாது. உண்மையில், நம் ஆய்வாளர்கள் கருதுவதுபோல் ‘வேளாண்மை’ எனுஞ்சொல் உழவுத் தொழிலைக் குறிப்பதல்ல.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-25396271983954960852013-04-05T19:17:37.228+05:302013-04-05T19:17:37.228+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-62793080653767875622012-10-12T20:36:54.390+05:302012-10-12T20:36:54.390+05:30@ anonymous
I have not made any confusion betwee...@ anonymous <br /><br />I have not made any confusion between Velir / Vel and Vellaalar - but you have done that. The Velirs are agnivansh people going by the verse by kapila. They must have shared a genealogy with Chauhans, Paramars etc of the Aravalli. The submergence of Bet Dwaraka researched by SN Rao was that of the last deluge experienced in Dwaraka. The Velir, royalty and 18 tribes who earlier migrated from Magadha along with Krishna (ref Mahabharata) were the people who lived there until then and shifted to TN along with Agasthya. <br /><br />I concur with most of what is said in the book Velir Varalaru and rely on historic sources. The Vels are same as Beldars of Maharashtra and Gujarat who did not migrate to tamil lands. Many info on Velirs is written by me widely in many articles in this blog and will be exclusively brought out in the later part of my Tamil series. Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-66040315534589393342012-10-12T17:47:59.756+05:302012-10-12T17:47:59.756+05:30Please don’t make confusion through internet
Velir...Please don’t make confusion through internet<br />Velir and vellalar is completely distinct community. Velir is tribe, we can call them “Murka tribe (children of Maheswara/Shiva) vellalar is Yadava tribe brought here by Agastya to South india particularly for make “ila bhumi (tamil nadu) fertile so they employed in paddy area to create pool such things to maintain water level of the earth also they were employed in temple construction also. <br />Because of the duty of vellalar, maintaining water level in earth, they known as vellalar but Velir is tribe who have light (truth), showing high level spiritual backround of that tribe<br />Initially Vellarar were employed for fertilise earth and collecting tax for Velir chieftains. Ayar was employee of Velir’s for collect tax from paddy landowners, gradually after Kingdome setup Velir lost their control on ancient Tamil nadu (five landscapes -Kurinji, Mullai, Marutam, Neithal and Palai) and the great Tamil culture destroyed it was synonyms of Vedic culture run by Velir <br />Please note Agastya is not a one person probably who reaching sidha level from velir tibe known as Agastyar (Agama+ Thiyan) so he is himself belongs to Velir tribe. Thiyan = who born in fire it indiacting murugan.<br />There is no cultural similarity Velir and Vellalar. Velir tribe have Shaktheya background and they worshiping Mother Goddess and Velir was happy for fight and died for truth. <br />Still velir tribe is existing in kerala Malabar region. If somebody what realise that please go and study about that community you will realise real Velir custom and culture still existing with them <br />This tribe name is Thiyar (who born from fire). The myth behind the origin of this community saying. One upon a time 7 maiden sisters bathing in river located in deep forest, Maheswara got attracted with them and the god became fire and attracted theses seven maiden sisters and made them pregnant 7 beautiful children born to the 7 maiden sisters t. Born from fire form of Shiva so called Thiyar. Accordigly the first children thiyar tibe have 8 illam. Boy from same will will not marry as it taboo...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-20475974211776915832012-08-06T19:33:57.921+05:302012-08-06T19:33:57.921+05:30Let me know about "Oori"?Let me know about "Oori"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-48551590536155992562009-12-22T19:10:48.214+05:302009-12-22T19:10:48.214+05:30Vyakarana is made for people like you - who get th...Vyakarana is made for people like you - who get the derivations wrong.<br /><br />I know one can not show the way to people who are not in a mind set to receive it. <br /><br />However before closing this topic I wish you to see these works besides your decade old search of the net - for you wont get the works of Nacchinaarkiniyar and Adiyaarkku nallar on net. <br /><br />* Tholkaapiyar mentioned in payiram, that he learnt Ainthiram , a grammar work (vyakarana for deriving roots and meanings of words) of Indra is validated by commentators including Nacchinaarkiniyar. <br /><br />* In Silapapdhikaaram, maduraik kandam, kaadu kaaN kaathai verses, 99 & 152 on Ainthiram given by "Vinnavar komaan" (Indiran) the commentary by Adiyaarkku nallar and later day writers point to the grammar work by Indran.<br /><br />* A derived understanding from this that Othuvaars have 6 schools of which Ainthiram is one is that it is one among shandagavigaL (repeated in punranaanuru Urai 224 also)which means shad- angas (the 6 vedangas of which vyakarana is one anga) This Tamilised word Shadangavi from Shadaanga is the root of the word Shadangu or sadangu in Tamil. <br /><br />* Just enough go through Purananuru & the olden commentaries recorded by Dr U.Ve.Sa, you will know what is naan marai as a bonus.<br /><br />* what Tholkaapiyar says as Inthiram is the grammer work of Indira which is accepted by scholars. To know more on why this Indira conenction is there to Tamils and Tamillands, read the pathigam of Manimegalai and its commentary <br /><br />* Maya's Ainthiram is the Energy map which is trapped as mandala with Brahmasthaan in the middle is given as a pic in one of the pages of the AUM centre. This is what vaastu is all about - the basis from which the application on Bhumi, Praasaada, Yaana and Shyaana sprang up (go search for these words in the net!! you wont understand them unless you STUDY vaastu)<br /><br />Good luck on your searchJayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-26212106229162755842009-12-22T00:34:43.991+05:302009-12-22T00:34:43.991+05:30Sorry, i dont think you will even try to understan...Sorry, i dont think you will even try to understand the real thing about aindra and aintiram. Aindra was one among the six schools for the Othuvars. <br /><br />Aintiram, is a Tamil book that claims to have been written in 13,900 BC,that tells about the basic structure of the cosmos from infinite positive space to infinite negative space. The energy conventions etc. that form the basis of Vaastu and Vastu. (You have to figure out the diffence between Vaastu and Vastu from your 2 decades of exp.) It also tells about a certain technique of building a space craft. (Does space craft building come under the subject of grammar! Dont say this to anyone, people will laugh at you madam!!!)<br /><br />In fact you can even call Aintiram as an ancient book of cosmo physics and not some grammar book. <br /><br />I will give you a link that shows the book's English translation and a little bit of explainations about it<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ol9JTQtdUQ<br /><br />watch the video, you would understand what Aintiram is all about. <br /><br />And in fact I was expecting you to take up that word vyakarana. And thats all that people like you like to use to show your supremacy. Anyway continue your work, and remember one thing as i told you earlier, apply some logical thinking and a bit of practical knowledge and leave that superiority mind that you try to show in every post of yours coz even a less exp. guy like me may know something that you dont. <br /><br />And FYKI, I have been surfing the net and searching for information for more than a decade. Also I have all collections of the Tamil books you mentioned and in fact more than that in both of my personal libraries (hard copy and soft copy) To tell you the truth I aint a book worm. I just read the main themes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-71207533119398008202009-12-21T08:51:05.260+05:302009-12-21T08:51:05.260+05:30>>Link that you gave was that of Aindra and ...>>Link that you gave was that of Aindra and not Ainthiram. The two are different and they two have different links. Seems you never went to the link I gave you.<<<br /><br />Hello.<br />you dont seem to have gone through the two links<br />one link obviously tells about Ainthiram formulated by Indra which Tholkaapiyar learned.<br /><br />But somehow you want to rubbish it and are looking for some loopholes to promote what you wish to believe. You just looked at the other link on vaastu and believed that veaastu is Ainthiram. Vastu is not Ainthiram The link on vastu reveals it. <br />please have patience to read the two highlighted ones, both vaastu and maamuni mayan.<br /><br />Vaastu obviously contains what is vaastu and not ainthiram<br />In maamuni mayan, the word ainthiram comes as the sastra learnt by mayan. Dont ignore it. He learnt ainthiram - anyone learning sanskrit would have to learn vyakarana sastras of which ainthiram is one. <br /><br />It is said in the link that maya wrote vaastu's aithiram, which is about the 5 elements dealt in vastu sastra. Aim poothamgal endru solvathu pol ainthiram. If you argue that this is the ainthiram, we can quote many such 5s. Even the word "iyengar' is derived from Ainthiram. There are 5 issues which are central to practice for an iyengar and therefore such a practitioner is called as Iyengar. <br /><br />Obviously Tholkapaiyar did not ascribe his knowledge of Ainthiram to vastu but to the grammar work Ainthiram, which is universally accepted as a grammar work.<br /><br />I again request you to widen your search and hit at the right kind of knowledge.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-87261416718975489972009-12-21T08:28:54.019+05:302009-12-21T08:28:54.019+05:30Hello,
The basic problem here is you have not yet...Hello,<br /><br />The basic problem here is you have not yet known what is Vyakarana which is what Ainthiram is all about. You have taken trouble to explain what is ainthu. such kind of explanation of linguistic nuances is what Vyakarana is all about. Unfortunately for you - Aindiram is not what you said. You seem to have just started browsing, do a wider browsing of the net, there is enough material on the net to tell you what is that Ainthiram that Tholkaappiyar studied. <br /><br />In addition,learn what is naanmarai,Ainthiram (the link you have provided http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aindra is not read be you obviously!!), AIT's current status et al. <br /><br />That mayyam article is based on outdated views. Learn the latest developments - all of which are being discussed in this blog. The one who does not have the aricchuvadi in these issues can not understand the articles of my blog. That is what is happening with you. Wish you best of luck to get into more learning.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-69663213599883292372009-12-21T02:04:13.088+05:302009-12-21T02:04:13.088+05:30The word Aintiram does not take:its coinage from t...The word Aintiram does not take:its coinage from the word Indra,but in fact refers to the five creative aspects of the cosmos. <br /><br />In Tamil' Aintu' stands for five. <br />The five aspects are <br />1.The primany source of creation (moolam),<br />2.The vibration factor leading to creation or the Time factor (kaalam), <br />3.The order inherent in the vibration(seelam) <br />4.Form emerging from the primary source through the vibration (kolam) and <br />5.Finally the end result being the form emerging from the primary source through the vibration (kolam) and finally the end result being the all –encompassing universe. <br /><br />From this you can understand Ainthiram is in no way connected to Indira. In fact Indira comes in Rk where he destroys dams and is called the destroyer of fortesses.<br /><br />Link that you gave was that of Aindra and not Ainthiram. The two are different and they two have different links. Seems you never went to the link I gave you. <br /><br />Whatever history we have been reading since the British ruled us was written by linguists, authors and not by historian and scientific proofs. The real history is yet to come. <br /><br />Please go through the complete discussions I sent about Naan Marai and when you go through that please leave behind your20 years of exp. and use logical thinking.<br /><br />Good luckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-22433724833121368432009-12-19T11:22:07.218+05:302009-12-19T11:22:07.218+05:30Hello, it seems you have not yet gone through the ...Hello, it seems you have not yet gone through the wiki article I quoted in my comment which is however there in the comment you sent earlier. <br /><br />It is called Ainthiram because it was given by Indran.<br />There are many references to this in Tamil texts. In silappadhikaram, in maduraik kandam, the pilgrim from Mangadu in chran lands tells abput this and adiyaarkku nalalr explains Aithinthiram as preached by Indran. There are references at other texts too on the nature of this text. Maya had never been involved in gramarian works. <br /><br />AIT is defunct. There are innumerable articles in this blog about it. Whereas Sanskrit is the language of vedas. Anyone from any part of the world wanting to study or learn vedas can do so through Sanskrit only. Even Maya (this Maya is of Surya siddhnatha) of Romaka desa (where this is situated will be explained in my next post - please watch out ) studied sankrit to write down the teachings he received from Surya and given as surya siddhnatha.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-26782043284849479482009-12-18T22:39:38.997+05:302009-12-18T22:39:38.997+05:301. It is the original book from which the Hindu Ve...1. It is the original book from which the Hindu Vedas are just imperfect derivations. <br /><br />In the word Ainthiram, 'Ainthu' no doubt means five in Tamil and not in Skt. It talks about the five basic building structures of the cosmos. <br /><br />Whatever you said may be right, since you are in the field for 2 decades. You may be wrong too, because we are all bit by the AIT bug (Aryan Invasion Theory) and we still like to stay in the MST hangover (Mother Sanskrit Theory), never willing to come out.<br /><br />Anyways, I dont want to disturb you from your topic. Good luckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-28404077027890491812009-12-18T13:47:13.516+05:302009-12-18T13:47:13.516+05:30Hello,
Please read Tholkaapiyam (it is easy to un...Hello,<br /><br />Please read Tholkaapiyam (it is easy to understand) to know for yourself the facts I have stated. You can get the text in the link www.tamilnation.org. <br /><br />The link you have provided on Ainthiram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aindra does contain what i said. Didn't you see that? <br /><br />And before telling me that it was about Vastu sastra, know my credentials (you would have known if you have read my other posts) as an astrologer and researcher in astrology for more than 2 decades! I know the differences between maya, vishwakarma and narada schools of vastu and who among them is close to Athrava vedas.<br /><br />This naanmarai stuff - and aram, porul ... Dear Sir, they are the 4 purusharthas called Dharma, artha, kaama and moksha which are to be treaded with care for which the Vedas are the guidelines. <br /><br />Thirukkural is Naan marai (Brush up your memory on what you read about the other names of Thirukkural) because it states the vedic guidelines for the first 3 purushartthas. Veedu is left out. It is because if one takes care of the first 3, veedu (moksha) is the automatic result. This told by the ancient pulavargaL who have praised Thirukkural. <br /><br /><br />Read lot of basic things from ancient texts and original commentators like Nachinaarkiniyar and Parimelazhagar and not today's writers who cannot go beyond 500 BC in the past.<br /><br />Know that Tamil's past is deep into more than 10,000 years in civilised existence but that is not anathema to Sanskrit. Sanskrit had been the language of vedas for all times. That was the education in those days. All the poets of sangam era have had knowledge of this education and incorporated it in their works. <br /><br /><br />My suggestion is to read the many posts in this blog to get a better idea of all these.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-58345001225412649052009-12-17T21:17:56.165+05:302009-12-17T21:17:56.165+05:30Tholkaapiyar’s teacher was trained in 4 vedas. Tho...Tholkaapiyar’s teacher was trained in 4 vedas. Tholkaapiyar himself was trainwed in Ainthiram, a grammar book of Sanskrit.<br /><br />The above comment has a problem. The Ainthiram is not a grammar book, rather it is a book on Vaastu, it is not a Sanskrit book, it is a pure Tamil book. See links below<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aintiram<br />http://nakkeran.com/Thaizharhistory.htm<br /><br />It is the original book from which the Hindu Vedas are just imperfect derivations. <br /><br />And for Naan Marai, you can goto the below link.<br /><br />http://www.mayyam.com/hub/viewtopic.php?t=7281<br /><br />Naan Marai is not the four Vedas. It is ARam, Porul, Inbam, VeeduRedheartkidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14190783616046014372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-48576717252316348732009-11-21T14:38:09.643+05:302009-11-21T14:38:09.643+05:30Your 4th comment <<<<(iv) The terms, ‘...Your 4th comment <<<<(iv) The terms, ‘Velir’ and the ‘Vellalar’ are ‘Tamil’ and not ‘Sanskrit’.<<< and the 5th <br />Could be. They could have coined a Tamil term. But words like Paari, Ovi were there – in Kashmir tradition too…..<br />Moreover Sanskrit had been the base language for Vedic or Dharmic studies.<br />Tholkaapiyar’s teacher was trained in 4 vedas. Tholkaapiyar himself was trainwed in Ainthiram, a grammar book of Sanskrit. Please read Parimelazhagar’s comemtary to ThirukkuraL to know how ThirukkuraL is a Naan marai. Some excerpts of it can be read in this blog. Please search in the search box. The KaLavu, karpu, marriage and almost all the practices were Hindu dharmic. Vedas are the basis for them. <br />நிலம் தரு திருவின் பாண்டியன் அவையத்து <br />அறம் கரை நாவின் நான்மறை முற்றிய 10 <br />அதங்கோட்டு ஆசாற்கு அரில் தபத் தெரிந்து <br />மயங்கா மரபின் எழுத்து முறை காட்டி <br />மல்கு நீர் வரைப்பின் ஐந்திரம் நிறைந்த <br />தொல்காப்பியன் எனத் தன் பெயர் தோற்றிப் <br />பல் புகழ் நிறுத்த படிமையோனே.<br />And Tamils was not Matriarchal! <br />From Purananuru -9 <br />தென்புலம் வாழ்நர்க்கு அருங்கடன் இறுக்கும்<br />பொன்போற் புதல்வர்ப் பெறாஅ தீரும்,<br />Birth of son was very much the obsession of the Tamils to do Pindam ceremony.<br />This is unmistakably a Vedic way of life and a patriarchal tradition.<br />Mr LanVar, <br />There are many many indications in Tamil texts in addition to these.<br />What is given here is “oru paanai sottrukku oru soru padam”<br />Thanks for writing.<br />Please read all the mails in this blog on Dravida, tamils, Dwaraka emigrants etc.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-18947316978916502992009-11-21T14:37:55.755+05:302009-11-21T14:37:55.755+05:30Your 3rd comment <<<(iii) The ancient ‘Ta...Your 3rd comment <<<(iii) The ancient ‘Tamil’ society never followed a four Varna system.>>><br />Not so. <br />Quote from Tholkappiyam :-<br />பொருளதிகாரம், <br /><br />2. புறத்திணையியல்<br /><br />அறு வகைப் பட்ட பார்ப்பனப் பக்கமும் <br />ஐ வகை மரபின் அரசர் பக்கமும் <br />இரு மூன்று மரபின் ஏனோர் பக்கமும்<br /><br /><br />9. மரபியல்<br />நூலே கரகம் முக்கோல் மணையே <br />ஆயும் காலை அந்தணர்க்கு உரிய. 71 <br />படையும் கொடியும் குடையும் முரசும் <br />நடை நவில் புரவியும் களிறும் தேரும் <br />தாரும் முடியும் நேர்வன பிறவும் <br />தெரிவு கொள் செங்கோல் அரசர்க்கு உரிய. 72<br />வைசிகன் பெறுமே வாணிக வாழ்க்கை. 78 மெய் தெரி வகையின் எண் வகை உணவின் <br />செய்தியும் வரையார் அப் பாலான. 79<br />வேளாண் மாந்தர்க்கு உழுதூண் அல்லது <br />இல் என மொழிப பிற வகை நிகழ்ச்சி. 81Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-42988581417444527002009-11-21T14:37:39.973+05:302009-11-21T14:37:39.973+05:30The 2nd information in Nacchinaarkiniyar’s narrati...The 2nd information in Nacchinaarkiniyar’s narration (given above) fits in here.<br />He says that the migrants were settled after “kaadu kedutthui naadaakki” <br /><br />Those places were the Yadavas (aayar) settled and given an identity<br /><br />மாயோன் மேய காடு உறை உலகமும் <br /><br />The 5 way (rather 4-way) division of land is thus a later creation after the boundary of Tamil lands send with the current kanya kumari. When Dwaraka was submerged, the Pandyans (Thennavan) also suffered loss of theior land to the sea and moved to the present day Tamilnadu. <br /><br />This is noted in Kalith thogai (Mullaik kali) 104<br /><br />மலி திரை ஊர்ந்து தன் மண் கடல் வௌவலின், <br />மெலிவு இன்றி மேல் சென்று, மேவார் நாடு இடம்படப், <br />புலியொடு வில் நீக்கிப், புகழ் பொறித்த கிளர் கெண்டை, <br />வலியினான் வணக்கிய, வாடாச் சீர் தென்னவன் <br />தொல் இசை நட்ட குடியொடு தோன்றிய <br />நல் இனத்து ஆயர், ஒருங்கு தொக்கு, எல்லாரும்-<br /><br />There had been an ancient aayar kudi which migrated upward – to the present day Tamilnadu. <br /><br />There had been olden clans noted in these lines:-<br />“தொல் இசை நட்ட குடியொடு தோன்றிய <br />நல் இனத்து ஆயர், ஒருங்கு தொக்கு, எல்லாரும்”<br /><br />It is on these line we have to probe the antiquity of Agamudaiyaar, Kallar etc (You have not yet the article on KaLlar, I suppose) <br />Again while commenting on the 32 nd sutra of AgatthiNai-iyal<br />(மன்னர் பாங்கின் பின்னோர் ஆகுப. 32 ) <br />Nacchinaarkiniyar repeats the same view.<br />“Malaya Madhavan nilam kadantha nedumudi Annalaluzhai <br />nara-pathiyaarudan kONarntha <br />padhiNeN vagai kudi-p-pirandha VeLirkkum..”<br /><br />(the kings born in the family of Krishna and along with them <br />VeLirs born in 18 families (kudi) were brought)<br /><br />The VeLirs were many – aai andiron is one among them.<br /><br /><br />In 201 of Purananuru, you will find the same information given by Kapilar while he wanted IrungovEl to marry the daughters of Paari.<br />Parambu malai, Paari, IrungO Vel – all belonged to the Velir clan.<br />Kapilar says,<br />படுமணி யானைப்,பறம்பின் கோமான்<br />நெடுமாப் பாரி மகளிர்; யானே<br />தந்தை தோழன்: இவர்என் மகளிர்;<br />அந்தணன், புலவன், கொண்டுவந் தனனே;<br /><br />Then continues <br /><br />நீயே, வடபால் முனிவன் தடவினுள் தோன்றிச்,<br />செம்பு புனைந்து இயற்றிய சேண்நெடும் புரிசை,<br />உவரா ஈகைத், துவரை ஆண்டு,<br />நாற்பத்து ஒன்பது வழிமுறை வந்த<br />வேளிருள் வேளே! விறற்போர் அண்ணல்!<br />தாரணி யானைச் சேட்டிருங் கோவே!<br /><br /><br />IrungovEL was the 49th king in the lineage of Royalty that ruled Dwaraka. His ancestor came out from the Homa kunda, says Kapilar. <br />Drishtadymnan (brother of Draupathi) was the one whop emerged from the Homa kunda.<br />From this poem it is known that InrungO vEl belonged to the lineage of Drushtadymnan!<br />The talk of MaayOn is later to their migration. <br /><br /><br />It is logical to deduce that after the Tamil lands were shattered by the deluge that coincided with start of Kali yuga (Yugap pralayam) and dislocation of people from Deep South and migration of people from dwaraka brought in by the Tamil muni, Agatthiyar, new guidelines were formulated which were narrated by Tholkappiyar.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.com