tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post123762397112090540..comments2024-03-18T22:56:06.696+05:30Comments on Jayasree Saranathan: Thiruvalluvar Aandu - what Karunanidhi does not know of Thiruvalluvar!Jayasree Saranathan http://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-78152701287324075932015-10-04T11:37:12.993+05:302015-10-04T11:37:12.993+05:30Wow what a mess. Totally childish argument. Plea...Wow what a mess. Totally childish argument. Please read Nakkerer's Thirumurugattrupadai for Meat eating practice in Tamils land. Please read Tholkappium, Naladiyar about aram, porul and inbam. Earlier I did refer to your blog for some good input. But this one, I can tell it is a total childish work...Selvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14270616524890381003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-89029052078995841182013-01-21T06:22:04.323+05:302013-01-21T06:22:04.323+05:30This blogpost is half cookedThis blogpost is half cookedkarthikeyan pandianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15403333627440699279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-21929742642968899172012-10-09T14:17:44.921+05:302012-10-09T14:17:44.921+05:30Dear Madam,
i agree with you.
i would like to p...Dear Madam,<br /><br />i agree with you. <br /><br />i would like to place my experience as non vegetarian converted into strict vegetarian. one its very difficult task to control our taste sense initially., which needs strongwill n God's grace.<br /><br />secondly resentment shown by friends, relatives.<br /><br />one can only experience the bliss & a sense of lightness of being a vegetarian.<br /><br />having experience both sides i can understand a non vegetarian, who are prone to tendencies (even I had)such as<br />chauvinism/ mocking and lack of empathising. <br /><br />with all humility i try to advocate vegetarianism which leads one to path of Dharma.<br /><br />Sheela<br /><br /><br /><br /> Sheelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058145061281478167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-91923238075770288412012-10-09T12:18:49.516+05:302012-10-09T12:18:49.516+05:30Dear Ms Sheela,
Yes, there is selective use of Th...Dear Ms Sheela,<br /><br />Yes, there is selective use of Thirukkural by the present day people who are mostly influenced by Dravidian ideology. I even had a person who swore by Thirukkiural, argue in my Tamil blog that eating non-veg is the cultural habit of Tamils for all along. <br /><br />But the reality picture is that Tamils and Indians in general have been strict vegetarians until a century ago. John Phillip Wesdin, the Austrian traveler who traveled through India between 1776 to 1789 had written in his book "Voyages to the East Indies" that <br /><br />"Their (Indians) total abstinence from all flesh, and the express prohibi¬tion of their religion which forbids them to kill animals, prevent them from dissecting them and examining their internal construction."<br /><br />The Census Report of 1881 says "that Hindoos are almost completely vegetarians and that the Mahammedans are the butchers and the flesh eaters of the country". The Report even showed surprise that the so called fishermen (Shembadavas) did not reside near the sea but lived in-land and were engaged in other activities. The first culprit to have sown the seeds of difference among the Hindus in the name of caste are the Britishers. It was further refined by the Dravidian ideologues. It was only after they started to wield influence on the people of Tamilnadu, the ways of life even in eating habits were changed. Ask any Tamil on his ancestry, you will get a reply on how their grand parents were pious, religious and non-meat eaters. <br /><br />Even looking at the temple inscriptions, one comes to know that every village lived as a compact system of unity among various people whose life centered around the temple. Such a life based around temple did not allow meat eating or other vices.<br /><br />With all these, there are however a small percentage of people who had taken to meat eating and liquor. In a Paripaadal there is a mention of a few persons lying near the fields in inebriated condition. But that was not justified, nor accepted. Such people were not accepted by the people at large. The roots of untouchability started with that only. Those who killed cows were never allowed inside the village. Such a situation started only with the advent of the Mughals. <br /><br />There are a couple of inscriptions which show leniency when a person had killed an animal unintentionally. They were asked to light the lamps everyday in the temple as a mode of prayaschiththa. <br /><br />Killing any life, and eating other life were never promoted nor tolerated in India. The one who kills, the one who sells the killed animal and the one who eats - all these three get the negative effect for this killing. Of them the one who eats meat gets more of the negative effect (Paapam) because it is for him that the animal is killed primarily.<br /><br />One may ask whether killing applies to eating vegetables too. This requires a detailed reply which I have already written in "athithi Bhojanam" article<br /><br />http://www.scribd.com/doc/12914327/Athithi-devo-bhava<br /><br />In short, no life is killed in eating vegetarian food. Only the stored up extra energy for the planet is used. Eating plant food is also necessary because the Atman enters through the plant food into a man's alimentary canal and get fixated in his sperm. As a prayaschiththa for whatever discomfort is caused to vegetable life, a man must pay back by watering the plants everyday.<br /><br />This part taken from my Tamil article might help:-<br /><br />"ஒவ்வொரு குடும்பஸ்தனின் வீடும் ஒரு கொலைக் களம் போல் உள்ளது என்கின்றன தர்ம நூல்கள். வீட்டில் அடுப்பு எரிப்பதாலும், நீர் கொதிக்க வைப்பதாலும், உணவு சமைப்பதாலும், மாவு அரைப்பதாலும், வீட்டை விளக்குவதாலும் – இப்படி ஐந்து வழிகளில் பல நுண்ணுயிர்கள் கொல்லப்படுகின்றன. எனவே குடும்பஸ்தனின் வீடு ‘சூனா’ எனப்படும் கொலைக் களம் போல இருக்கிறது. கொல்லுதல் பாபத்தை உண்டாக்குவது. ஆனால் அறியாமலும், வேறு வழியில்லாமலும் இங்கே நுண்ணுயிர்கள் கொல்லப்படுவதால், அதற்குப் பிராயச்சித்தமாக தினமும் இந்த பஞ்ச யக்ஞங்கள் செய்ய வேண்டும் என்று தர்ம நூல்கள் சொல்லுகின்றன."<br /><br />More on <br /><br />http://www.tamilhindu.com/2010/05/creation-theory-6/Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-13337927717907027312012-10-09T11:01:59.830+05:302012-10-09T11:01:59.830+05:30Dear Madam,
incidentally my son asked when there ...Dear Madam,<br /><br />incidentally my son asked when there is whole adhikaram on vegetarianism in Thirukural why few kurals from this adhikaram is not given in Tamilnadu text syllabus for students?<br /><br />may be Government does not want to show this facet of Thirukural to young students!!<br /><br />SheelaSheelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07058145061281478167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-35892519296894436652012-10-09T10:00:26.994+05:302012-10-09T10:00:26.994+05:30@ anonymous,
There is no yes or no answers to yo...@ anonymous,<br /><br />There is no yes or no answers to your questions because all your questions were based on one facet of understanding of, say, the huge elephant which was explored by 6 blind people. It is like answering the questions raised by the one who understood the elephant as a long tubed animal, based on his exploration of the tusk alone. <br /><br />You are into saivagama and therefore seeing whatever looks similar to the notions of saivagama. But know that saivagama is only a branch of the vast Vedantha - though what you are reading prohibits you from understanding or accepting that. As I didn't want to hurt your sentiments and instead wanted you to move ahead in your path of exploration, I am refraining from commenting any further. <br /><br />A person goes through several stages and several births by exploring the nuances of the Wisdom which is enshrined in Vedas and which one catches up as one becomes more sattvic in disposition. A time will come when you will also reach that state. At that time you will realise that Thirukkural is dharma sastra of he Vedantic system of life. At that you will become a thinker by yourself and realise what each of the Godheads and their activities convey. Best wishes. Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-77227847097864545692012-10-08T14:44:29.666+05:302012-10-08T14:44:29.666+05:30I think my first 5 questions require a simple yes ...I think my first 5 questions require a simple yes or no and a line of explanation. At present, I'm studying sivanuyaana sithiyaar which will cover Hindu studies across the board and indept. I'm not disturbed by you asking me to do so. Maybe one day, through sivaperumaan's Grace, when I'm blessed with the kind of knowledge I will need, I will definitely read. Just to clarify, my primary objective is to completely grasp aagamic saivam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-69148592367073623052012-10-08T14:30:32.730+05:302012-10-08T14:30:32.730+05:30//The 10th kural speaks of surrendering to His fee...//The 10th kural speaks of surrendering to His feet which is not told for Shiva or any other God (who are actually manifestations of Brahman).//<br /><br />'namachivaaya vaa_aZHga naadhanDRaaL vaaZHga'.<br /><br />- maaNikkavaasaga naayanaar (3rd Century AD)<br /><br />namachivaaya refers to siva, the transcendental Special nature of sivaperumaan and naadhanDRaaL, not only refers to the 1st thathvuva, naadham (siva), but, the Feet of sivaperumaan, is His sathi. It is in the Feet of sivaperumaan that everything exists and, as His sathi brings all into gross existence and pervades them, the Feet of sivaperumaan is symboli of sathi. Saivam is all about the Feet of sivaperumaan. Liberation is the soul being detached from the universe (paasam neekkam) and being attached to the Feet of sivaperumaan (sivapehru), by being merged in a subtle, non-dual inseparable union. This merging with the Feet of sivaperumaan is scattered throughout the thirumuRaygaL and saathirangaL. Correct me if I'm wrong but, is liberation in vaiNavam not considered to be more of a marriage? In saivam, the Feet are most 'obsessed' over as, eventually, we are 'slaves' to the Lord rather than an equal. Again, maaNikkavaasagar says, "neeLkaaZHgaL kaaTTi" - "You Revealed Your Omnipotent Feet". At the end of the sivapuraaNam, He says, "selvar sivapurathin wuLaar sivanaqDi keeZH pallohrum yehtha paNindhu" - thoßse (Who realise the meaning of these songs and chant them) will go to sivapuram (sivalohgam), which is situated at the bottom of sivaperumaan's Feet, where they will remain amongst the other liberated souls, as Slaves, and praise Him. So, the idea of the Feet of sivaperumaan, which are evetually, beyond all worlds, is the central focus of saivam. This is cemented by thirunaavukkarasar appar naayanaar where, when kailaasanaadhar appeared to Him, He (appar) said, "kaNDehn avar thirupaadham". If you look at pooZHiyarkohn, in praise of the naalvar, not only sivaperumaan's Feet are held in the highest regard, but the Feet of His Devotees. <br /><br />//Wherever a description comes on a facet of Brahman which is known by a specific God, Parimelazhagar had mentioned that.//<br /><br />The facets all mentioned in kaDavuL vaaZHthu are taught specially by saiva sithaandham and are attributed to sivaperumaan Himself. Yes, he would've mentioned aspects of god as per other religions, but, this will just be general. saiva sithaandham does not only focus on Its own philosophy, but goes indept into other philosophies as well.<br /><br />//One who is knowledgeable in Vedic religion will not call oneself as saivite or vishnavite or a sakhtha and so on because such a person would know what each of these Gods mean and would find them as manifestations of Brahman which is established as Narayana by Vedas.// <br /><br />The Vedas are not conclusive as to Who is God Head. I met a Vedic-saiva sithaandhan who was convinced that the Sanskrit Vedas were pure saiva sithaandham. The reason as to why there are different aagamaas to the same vedas is because it gives contradictory reasoning to God Head. For the manner in which brammam exists as celestials, like the trimoorthi, one must understand suthathuvidham. Why can one not say that brammam is parasivam? Do you not consider yourself vaiNavar?<br /><br />//Thirukkural Devanaar (Thiruvalluvar)is one such knowledgeable person and uses the descriptions aptly. Parimelazahagar points them out aptly.//<br /><br />If you look at the hand-gesture of thiruvaLLuva naayanaar's moorthi at kanyakumaari, how would you explain it from a vedic-vaiNava perspective?<br /><br />Btw, I must thank you for giving me this chance to engage in a debate of this kind. As religious education isn't embraced in SA, when scholarly debate is engaged, the opposition turn to insults which is a waste of time. I've learnt a lot from this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-26824670421896948662012-10-08T14:28:36.685+05:302012-10-08T14:28:36.685+05:30//Even Jains talk about 8 siddhis for Jina and cla...//Even Jains talk about 8 siddhis for Jina and claim that Thirukkural refers to Jina!// <br /><br />thirukkuRaL praises the agriculturalist thus, samanam's claims are refuted. No part of the thirukkuRaL can be interpretted where it contradicts the next. <br /><br />//So we have to see what Thirukkural Devanar meant. Take a look at 27th kural where Parimelazhagar mentions 25 tattwas which are purely Vedic and Vaishnavite philosophy. How would you justify that from saivagama?//<br /><br />You'll have to excuse my Tamil. Tamils in SA are unfortunate as those before my current generation failed to preserve the language. It is not my native language and I'm still studying. From what I gather, I have the gist that puruDan experiences the effects of maan (moola prakriti). In vainavam, moola prakriti is maal. In saivam, moola prakriti is not a thathuva but an aspect of impure maayai. What explanation then will you give to puruDan and the mention of the 7 thathuvas (vithya thathuvaas) which are beyond moola prakriti? The 25 that he mentions is puruDan and aanma thathuvaas; moola prakriti, which is an aspect of impure maayai, which results in the 24 aanma thathuvaas has seegaNDa paraman (rudhraa), Who is controlled by sivaperumaan, as its master. puruDan is not a seperate thathuva but, is considered the 7th of 7 vithya thathuvas. From impure maayai comes 'maayai', classified as the 1st vithya thathuva from which kaalam (time) comes. Then comes niyadhi (destiny) followed by kalai, vithai and araagam. When the soul is clad in these 5 vithya thathuvas (kaalam, niyadhi, kalai, vithai and araagam) it becomes know as puruDan. Thus, puruDan, or the 25th is a combination of 5 thathuvas, which makes the soul ready to experience the 24 effects (aanma thathuvaas) of maan. In saivaagamaas, there are 36 thathuvas. Above the vithya thathuvas, is sivathathuvas, which give rise to the world of speech and is controlled directly by sivaperumaan and is thus known as sutha maayai. Both sutha maayai and asutha maayai are effects of Causal Maayai. Therefore, the idea of thathuvas (instrumental existences), is saiva and pre-vedic.//To understand all these, one must know what Vedic polytheism says about One Brahman who has many manifestations. The one Brahman is Narayana who is the 'a-kaara' (agaram).// <br /><br />What you call vedic polytheism is what is originally known as dhaandhaanmiyam. This is the inseparable relationship between sivan (One) and sathi (many). This is still monotheism as sathi is the inseparable Nature of sivan. There is no authentic support for siva being a manifestation of maal or vice versa. If maal was brammam, then saivam should not have been proven as the most ancient of Hindu sects. In addition, how many examples can you think of that has sivaperumaan worshipping maal or any other entity and compare it to the number of examples where you have maal and other entities, worshipping, prostrating and surrendering to sivaperumaan? agaram is infering the opening of the mouth, without which, there can be no agaram. This also refers to the gross manifestation of the universe with 'a' being the first part of 'ohm'. Agaram is used as the world of speech is an effect of the sivathathuvas, the first 5 instruments which make-up the universe. As sivaperumaan is the One Who Decides to join the soul (pasu) with causal maayai and causal kanmam, He is known as the first of the world, that is, not being the material cause, but the Efficient Cause, Who, out of Mercy for the souls, brought the universe into gross existence.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-61650246701566032162012-10-08T14:25:45.416+05:302012-10-08T14:25:45.416+05:30//Please continue from what you have left in Parim...//Please continue from what you have left in Parimelazhagar's commentary - "saivaagamathu kooRappaTTadhu."<br /><br />Parimelazhagar continues to say " aNimaavai muthalaaka udaiyana enavum..." means these 8 qualities are ashta siddhis starting from Anima, Mahima etc. In other words the En huNam are the ashta siddhis starting from Anima.// <br /><br />From the description given on the 8 powers of God, and taking into consideration, athamaasithi, they are completely different. There is no way that parimehlaZHagar could've interpreted these 2 sets of 8 powers to be the same. Athamaasithi is given to souls and applies to the body (maayai). No matter what the religion, it is still sivaperumaan Who bestows these 8 powers as, given His 8 special powers, as listed by parimehlaZHagar, which only saivam ascribes to God, only He has the Power to do so. The body of sivaperumaan is aruL, the bodies of all other intelligent entities (souls) is maayakkaariyam. This is what athamaasithi effects. Why will God need athatmaasithi when She is already present in all and all is present in Him (kaDavuL), from the tiniest particle of matter to all of the universes? Furthermore, athamaasithi is not the final stage. In saivam, this is bestowed in yohgi stage. Truly speaking, all popular sithargaL in saivam, were nyaanies, that is, above the yohgi stage and had access to these 8 sithies if they were destined to be used -- unlike the sithar of other religions, the nyaanies of sithaandham never asked for these powers.<br /><br />//These qualities are mentioned for Vishnu also in Vishnu sahasranama - verse 27 "Siddhartha siddhi sankalpa siddhi dah siddhi saadhanaha"//<br /><br />Exactly my point. This goes to show that maal was confined by maayai thus, this will contradict one of the 8 powers, namely, thanvayathanaadhal - Absolute Freedom, which God is in possession of. As I said, a soul is bestowed athamaasithi. maal is a soul. History also supports that he did not maintain the states he received. In saivam, the naayanmaar are not praised for attaining liberation but, maintaining the state of performing sivathoNDu thus we have "thiruthoNDar" thogai (thillayvaaZH andhaNar) by thiru sundharamoorthi naayanaar. As kaNNan, maal experienced thathvamasi and possessed athamaasithi. As iraaman, he clearly did not possess this state nor did he athamaasithi. In fact, the history indicates that iraavaNan possessed these powers and so too did aNumaan. Furthermore, Who gave dhasarath liberation?<br /><br />//Chronologically Vishnu sahasranama preceded Saivagama as Vishnu sahasranama was given by Bheeshma on arrow bed (Mahabharatha).//<br /><br />In saivam, with bringing the universe into its gross form for the first time, sivaperumaan assumed the Form of sadhaasivamoorthi. Whilst the 4 outward-facing heads recite the naanmaRai (thamiZHvehdhaa), eesaana mugam recites the sivaagamaas. Saivaagamaas are both in Tamil and sanskrit and compliment each other however, the Tamil sivaagamaa, which is considered to be thirumandhiram, preceded the sanskrit. Tradition ascribes the age 6000BC to 3000BC for the thirumandhiram. The reason given for thirumoolar remaining here was that the thamiZHvehdham were not being adhered to. At this point in time, there was no Sanskrit VedasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-8589798476245844732012-10-08T14:09:59.343+05:302012-10-08T14:09:59.343+05:30@ anonymous whose comments continue to appear in t...@ anonymous whose comments continue to appear in the spam folder:-<br /><br />It will stretch into a book if I start writing a reply to you, as you keep asking one by one. Instead I suggest that you learn what Hinduism says on Godhead and take a re-look at Thirukkural with that learning. Or read my articles on Hinduism in this blogspot.<br /> <br />For Kadavul vaazththu of Thirukkural, the basis is Tholkappiya sutra "Kodinilai, kanthazi" . The details of this can be read in Mu. Raghava iyangar's 'Tholkaappiyap porul agaraathi aaraaycci". <br /><br />To know how this sutra fits in Thiurukkural, read vai. mu. sadagopa iyengar's urai for Thirukkural- parimelazagar urai. <br /><br />Don't get disturbed that I am asking you to read books by Iyengars. Theirs are standard books. fyi Any evolved Iyengar will have a better grasp of Vedic religion and the meaning of several Gods of Hindu pantheon. I would suggest D.A. Joseph's write ups for beginners. <br />http://www.dajoseph.com/index.html<br /><br />Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-23781035333341549032012-10-08T08:05:39.059+05:302012-10-08T08:05:39.059+05:301. Did parimehlaZHagar mention any other belief o...1. Did parimehlaZHagar mention any other belief or philosophy in kaDavuL vaaZHga, the section which decides the religion of the thirukkuRaL?<br /><br />2. Did maal not take birth, like all other souls?<br /><br />3. Did raamaa not accept sivaperumaan as guru?<br /><br />4. Was kaNNan not initiated into siva-worship?<br /><br />5. Were the first sithars not saiva?<br /><br />6. What birth did sivaperumaan take; can you give the name of one parent?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-80191656442736276442012-10-07T18:51:33.376+05:302012-10-07T18:51:33.376+05:30@ anonymous,
Please continue from what you have l...@ anonymous, <br />Please continue from what you have left in Parimelazhagar's commentary - "saivaagamathu kooRappaTTadhu."<br /><br />Parimelazhagar continues to say " aNimaavai muthalaaka udaiyana enavum..." means these 8 qualities are ashta siddhis starting from Anima, Mahima etc. In other words the En huNam are the ashta siddhis starting from Anima. <br /><br />These qualities are mentioned for Vishnu also in Vishnu sahasranama - verse 27 "Siddhartha siddhi sankalpa siddhi dah siddhi saadhanaha"<br /><br />Chronologically Vishnu sahasranama preceded Saivagama as Vishnu sahasranama was given by Bheeshma on arrow bed (Mahabharatha).<br /><br />Even Jains talk about 8 siddhis for Jina and claim that Thirukkural refers to Jina! <br /><br />So we have to see what Thirukkural Devanar meant. Take a look at 27th kural where Parimelazhagar mentions 25 tattwas which are purely Vedic and Vaishnavite philosophy. How would you justify that from saivagama?<br /><br />To understand all these, one must know what Vedic polytheism says about One Brahman who has many manifestations. The one Brahman is Narayana who is the 'a-kaara' (agaram). The 10th kural speaks of surrendering to His feet which is not told for Shiva or any other God (who are actually manifestations of Brahman). Wherever a description comes on a facet of Brahman which is known by a specific God, Parimelazhagar had mentioned that. <br /><br />One who is knowledgeable in Vedic religion will not call oneself as saivite or vishnavite or a sakhtha and so on because such a person would know what each of these Gods mean and would find them as manifestations of Brahman which is established as Narayana by Vedas. Thirukkural Devanaar (Thiruvalluvar)is one such knowledgeable person and uses the descriptions aptly. Parimelazahagar points them out aptly. Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-49600304132551844442012-10-07T16:12:05.750+05:302012-10-07T16:12:05.750+05:30parimehlaZHagar's Commentory of the word '...parimehlaZHagar's Commentory of the word 'yeNguNathaan', in kuRaL 9, kaDavuL vaaZHthu<br /><br />yeNguNangaLaavana: thanvayathanaadhal, thooyavuDambinanaadhal, iyaTkay_yuNarvinanaadhal, muTRumuNardhal, iyalbaagaveh paasangaLineengudhal, pehraruLuDamay, muDivilaaTRaluDaymay, varambilinbamuDaymay yenavinay; ivaaRu saivaagamathu kooRappaTTadhu.<br />- parimehlaZHagar.<br /><br />The Tamil word kaDavuL does not appear in the Sacred thirukkuaRaL. However, there are many words describing sivaperumaan's Nature in the first chapter of the thirukkuRaL. The word 'yeNguNathaan' (One having 8 Special Natures) which appears in the nineth verse of the first chapter, refers to the Lord's 8 Special Natures. parimehlaZHagar, whose commentary on the Sacred thirukkuRaL is considered to be the best, says that the word 'yeNguNathaan' refers to the eight special natures of sivaperumaan as explained in the saiva aagamaas. The saiva world is indebted to parimehlaZHagar, who, in spite of being vaiNavar, brought out this Truth without bias. The 8 Special Natures of sivaperumaan are as follows:<br /><br />•thanvayathanaadhal - Absolute Freedom •thooyavuDambinanaadhal - All Pure •iyaTkay_yuNarvinanaadhal - Natural Intelligence <br />•muTRumuNardhal - Omniscience<br />•aaLavilaa aaTRal wuDay_yan aadhal (muDivilaaTRaluDaymay) - Omnipotence<br />•varambilinbamuDaymay yenavinay - All Blissful <br />•pehraruLuDamay - All Merciful<br />•iyalbaagaveh paasangaLineengudhal - Naturally Untainted by Ignorance <br /><br />- sithaandha theLiviyal by 'sithaandha kalaymaNi' 'mudhu perum pulavar' 'mahaavivaa, Dr. Arunaivadivehl Si. Mudaliar (translation by (paN)isai selvamNi thiru Arunajalam Thiagarajan Govender Dip. Saiva Sithaandha Annaa University BA. Tamil Madras University).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-21831816269757686932012-09-19T12:16:12.092+05:302012-09-19T12:16:12.092+05:30I've been looking for a proper history of pâri...I've been looking for a proper history of pârimehlâZHgàr. Can you give me a brief run-down or a link to a proper history of his?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-53756661233628478842012-09-14T12:10:07.654+05:302012-09-14T12:10:07.654+05:30•In kuRàL 2, thiruvâLLuvà naayànaar refers to God ...•In kuRàL 2, thiruvâLLuvà naayànaar refers to God as 'vaal âRivàn' -- in sithaandhàm, sivàperumaan, in His Special Nature, is Pure Natural Intelligence. <br />•kuRàL 1, God is said to be 'aadhi pâgàvàn' -- in sithaandhàm, God is known as the Efficient Cause of the universe. <br />•kuRàL 3 says that those Who attain His Feet flourish long above all worlds -- sithaandhàm says that the attainment of sivàperumaan's Feet leads one to the transcending of all worlds, which is liberation, where the state of Bliss is an eternal experience. <br />•kuRàL 4 says that God is without likes and dislikes and does not experience misery -- sithaandhàm says that sivàperumaan does not have favourites or dislikes; those Who are Devoted to Him, will reap the benefits He offers and those who are not, don't - like a fire on a cold day, if you want warmth you go to it; staying away, won't get you warmth, either way, the flame remains unaffected by both. •kuRàL 5 speaks of God being unaffected by karma; Those Who attach to His Feet, will also be relieved of the experience of good and bad fruit -- sithaandhàm speaks of iruvinai woppú where, the soul, once it has attain a state where it is in continuous contemplation of sivàperumaan, will not experience the fruit of good and bad deeds that the body is subject to. •kuRàL 6 speaks of the Lord as being beyond the 5 senses -- sithaandhàm says that sivàperumaan destroyed the Forts of the 3 guNaas and controls them thus teaching that He is Naturally Unaffected by bondage, and, in addition, in the stage of yohgàm, control over the senses is gained by contemplating on sivàperumaan. <br />•kuRàL 7 speaks of God being without any worry what-so-ever as, He is God without an equal and those Who attain Him will also not experience any worry -- sithaandhàm teaches that no two entities, even of the same class, are identical therefore, God has no match and is void of any worries and offers the same to Those Who attain His Feet. <br />•kuRàL 8 says that the Feet of God is complete virtue and is free from vices and offers freedom from these vices to all which Attain His Feet -- sithaandhàm says we cannot beat our vices on our own thus, we should admit them to sivàperumaan and worship as only He can relieve us from these vices. <br />•kuRàL 9 speaks of God having 8 Natures -- sithaandhàm lists sivàperumaan's 8 Special Natures: 1. Absolute Freedom, 2. All Pure, 3. Natural Intelligence, 4. Omniscience, 5. Omnipotence, 6. All Blissful, 7. All Merciful and 8. Naturally Untainted by Ignorance. <br />•kuRàL 10 speaks of God being the only salvation from the cycle of birth and death -- sithaandhàm calls sivàperumaan as piRàppil perumaan and adds that only One Who is Eternally Unaffected by birth and death can save us from birth and death - 'pohkkum vâràvum puNàrvumillaa puNiyàneh", say thirú maaNikkavaasàgà naayànaar. <br /><br />This refutes those who claim the thirukkuRàL to be only secular, and not only that, but proves that thirukkuRàL is saivà sithaandhàm, thereby silencing claims to thirukkuRàL by other religions and philosophies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-31826523050073051692012-09-12T11:23:32.921+05:302012-09-12T11:23:32.921+05:30Btw, to respond to the title, I agree. Karunanidh...Btw, to respond to the title, I agree. Karunanidhi should stay in politics and not tamper with history, religion or culture. He is suggesting thiruvaLLuvar aaNDa based on the misinterpretation that thirukkuRàL is purely secular and that thiruvaLLuvar meant 'pagalvan' when He wrote 'pagavan' -- lame. On the other hand, I disagree that Tamils could not have come-up with the yoogam-system -- both math and alphabets, which thiruvaLLuvar emphasises the study of, runs deep into Tamil History. If they understood penance before the NIA came into India, what for language and math? Whilst I'm not anti-Aryan, I get sick of suggestions being made which infer that Tamils were a bunch of primative animals running wild in India before the Aryans came. I'm for what is. If evidence suggests that the Aryans civilised the Tamils, I'll accept. If ideas that the Tamils were well established before the Aryans came in, and what the Aryans taught and adopted was a distortion of what was there, plus ideas which were not distorted, then, those of Aryan descent should not fight it. I will forthrightly state that most Tamils today are lost and follow a distortion of their ancestors Truths. It isn't about being good or bad and neither is it condemning -- it is True. I know many who praise the thirukkuRaL and speak highly of it and proudly hold it in their hand and thereafter go dine on mutton briyani. Yes, I know it is almost impossible to live word by word by thirukkuRaL but, not impossible. Things like sexual emotions towards one's spouce is harder to give-up than eating meat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-38425926694804537032012-09-10T14:02:00.738+05:302012-09-10T14:02:00.738+05:30If mentioning Dravidian is chauvanist, is it not c...If mentioning Dravidian is chauvanist, is it not chauvanist to mention Vedic? The fact is, by lifestyle alone, there shows a difference in Cultures between North India, who represent the Aryans or North Indian Ancestors (NIA) and South Indians who represent the Dravidians. It is concluded that the culture of the inhabitants of the Indus Valley Civilisation is peculiar to South Indians thus, the term Dravidian was used. Honestly, I prefer the term Ancient Tamils. But, for reference, use Dravidian. Is it not strange that in current day North India there is no or very little Dravidian people who are indegenous to the North, however, the are strong communities of Dravidians indigenous to Pakistan? Furthermore, even in the DNA of those inhabiting the area around the Indus Valley today, there is closer similarity to South Indians than North Indians. All these are scientific and archaeological findings -- not fairy tales pulled out of a top hat. It cannot be termed as chauvanist if that is what is. The style of worship, that is, the use of flower, water and incense, found in the Indus Valley screams South Indian. This is distinct from fire-alter worship, which is very much Aryan, introduced from Iranian ancestry, especially, horse sacrifice. And yes, I know and have read-up about all the various ideas and objection to the Dravidian and Aryan classifications and the Aryan invasion theory. I agree, whilst there is no signs of violent entry into India, there was definitely a movement of one or more races, which can be termed North Indian Ancestors into India, which was then, populated by Tamils. You can either spend a life-town arguing this or take it as 'so-what?' and get on with life.<br /><br />But, it seems all of your attention just went to my mention that thiruvaLLuvàr used the naanmaRay tradition of âRàm, poruL, inbàm and veeDú -- Tamil literature has many places which refer to the once existent naanmaRay, referring to it as 'naanmaRay' or 'naalvehdham'. How can this be chauvanist when, bottom line is, He is Tamil and thirukkuRàL is a Tamil work? That's like calling me chauvanist for saying that Vedaviyaasa was Sanskrit/Aryan/Vedic.<br /><br />In doing so, you completely missed my main arguement -- I said, so what if thiruvaLLuvàr embraced vaidigà traditions; my focus is more on which philosophy He embraced, which, by explanation which I gave, was definitetly not Christianity, Atheism, Buddhism, Jainisim or Vainavam. You can't term this Dravidian chauvanist as it does not refer to a tradition or culture but a philosophy, which can incorporate many traditions and can be incorporated into traditions.<br /><br />BTW, your interpretation of saanDRohr is logically flawed. If you say that this refers to only, Aryans, it will mean that all noble people are Aryan and all Aryans are noble people. Saying that there could not be any noble Tamil people or people of other cultures or races is what you call a racist, culture-bias and chauvanist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-33997167846618393272012-09-09T19:02:07.816+05:302012-09-09T19:02:07.816+05:30@ anonymous
> The above comment of yours again...@ anonymous<br /><br />> The above comment of yours again appeared in spam folder. Once I chanced to click the spam folder and found that some mails are there. From then onwards, I am checking the spam folder regularly to see if any comment worthy of publishing is there. <br /><br />> I am not computer savvy and didn't do anything all these years to change the blogger settings. <br /><br />> I cant even change or manipulate the comments - I think any blogger would know this. I can only approve or reject a comment. For eg, I saw another comment in spam which sounded strange and so deleted it.<br /><br />> The accusations - Let me remind that I reacted to an accusation that I may not post your comment.<br /><br />> The issue of Chauvinism is about the repeated mention of "Dravidian". What is Dravidian? Lot of researches have come up particularly in genetics showing that there is nothing Dravidian. I have written umpteen times in this blog about it and am running a separate blog in Tamil on that topic alone. Inspite of me giving links to read them all, if people don't read them and write the same stuff again and again, I think that is time to call a stop to it. By saying this I might sound arrogant, but I can't help it. I am keen on spending my time on writing clarification for the already written info or write new info rather than spending time on justifications which can anyway be known if one reads my Tamil blogs. Hope I conveyed. <br /><br /> Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-773559982699248032012-09-08T14:06:25.291+05:302012-09-08T14:06:25.291+05:30A very scholarly scholarly response, I must say. ...A very scholarly scholarly response, I must say. Why is it that it is always South Indian greats who are taken and 'Aryanised' but, attempts won't be taken to take an Aryan personality and forcefully try to prove Dravidian traits. Interpretation is such that if you desperately wish to prove your ideas, you'll go looking for it and you will find something insignificant and try your best to give it some significance to back your idea. Why is it that there isn't an iconic statue of thiruvâLLuvàr anywhere in the North, yet, He announces proudly the South Indian coastline. The kuDumbi is unmistakebly Dravidian. You're the one trying to disprove what has already been clarified -- I'm just supporting. What is is what is. I don't know what's the general idea in India or what the greater Dravidian world is saying. What I say is my understandsing derived from personal studies. I thought this blog was about education and debate -- not childish accusations. I have no idea how my comment ended-up in spam; I didsn't even know there was provision for spam. Why I saids what is said is because you chose settings that gives you the power to choose what goes and what doesn't and, in my book, and many other, that's being bias. But, anyway, that isn't what this blog is about. What did I say in my comment which is 'chauvanist'? Squak:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-81873998036713329722012-09-07T23:28:12.432+05:302012-09-07T23:28:12.432+05:30@ anonymous
// If this isn't posted, then I w...@ anonymous<br /><br />// If this isn't posted, then I will, and that conclusion is fear of being wrong. //<br /><br />Your comment was in spam folder. You will know better how it went to the spam folder. Other than this, there is nothing worthy to answer to any point written in your comment. But what is seen is that you need to read more on Thiruvalluvar and not just parrot what the Dravidian chauvinists are writing. <br />Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-65223128239272135642012-09-06T16:14:27.540+05:302012-09-06T16:14:27.540+05:30Firstly, I don't see why moderation is set to ...Firstly, I don't see why moderation is set to such a blog. However, I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. If this isn't posted, then I will, and that conclusion is fear of being wrong.<br /><br />Firstly, the tradition of thiruvâLuvàr is not of importance. Whether He incorporated vaidhigàm in His work or not, I don't see much as a point of debate from my view. It is a given that Dravidians and Aryans would've been influenced by each other. However, the fact that He incorporates âRàm, poruL, inbàm and veeDú in His Work, proves that He was sent to re-give the naanmâRay, which existed before the Sanskrit vehdhaas, shows that He leaned towards Tamil Culture. As far as the Aryan debate goes, there is a possibility that iraamàn was Aryan, however, kâNNàn was Dravidian. According to the history of dheepaavâli goes, iraamàn was more central India -- one can only wonder if, 8000 years ago, the thâmiZH would've still been ruling that area.<br /><br />My focus is on which philosophy He belonged to. Many claim He belongs to their. The most ridiculous is that of the Atheists as, by the first Chapter Title, they are refutes. The Jains did not support agriculture and, did not have hair. Buddhists take the pitaka tree to be their idea of the highest of existences, but, then they believe at the same time, that it is not existent. ThiruvaLuvar makes no reference to their core beliefs, and at the same time, supports war-fare and extremeties. As far as Christianity goes, thirukkuRàL is 3BC, the bible is 2nd Century AD.<br /><br />I think, the one who has about the strongest claim, are the vainàvàr. However, mere reference to an âvadhaar of maal isn't enough. In 610, thiruvâLuvàr does not mention God, but, simply, 'the one'. If His intention was to show that maal was the God He was referring to, will this not be in kâDàvuL vaaZHthú? Plus, mentions of indiràn, kalaymâgàL, thirúmâgàL, etc., are also mentioned -- what prevents one from then saying that thiruvâLuvàr was referring to one of them? vainàvàm believes that maal is moolà prakrithi, and he evolves into the world and that vaiguNDàm is the highest Abode that one can attain, however, kuRàL 3 says that the Feet of the Lord is above all worlds, which will include vaiguNDàm, which is a world. thiruvâLuvàr does not say that God becomes the world. kuRàL 10 tells us that God is beyond birth as, only one who is unaffected by the misery of birth can give freedom from it yet, maal takes birth and, is does classified along the same type of intelligence which thiruvâLuvàr address, and that is, souls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-78207175173536880702011-09-01T16:47:13.859+05:302011-09-01T16:47:13.859+05:30@ mohan.mallar
Read the link given below on the d...@ mohan.mallar<br /><br />Read the link given below on the deity (Rama) that Thikruvalluvar worshiped.<br /><br />It is based on the rules of literature on hinting at the personal God in the first first line of the work that poets did in those days. Based on the aphorisms given, we can even deduce the personal God mentioned in a hidden way by Kambar in Kamba Ramayanam. The aphorisms cane be applied to any work of yore. <br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2010/05/thiruvalluvar-worshiped-sri-rama.html<br /><br />You call me having Aryan supremacy. Here is a link on how Thiruvalluvar's work is "Aryan"<br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-aryan-dravidian-divide-it-was-one_3029.html<br /><br />I suggest you expand your horizon of knowledge on Aryan and Dravidian issues by reading this series in <br /><br />http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.com/Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-20883833481217459472011-09-01T14:37:06.845+05:302011-09-01T14:37:06.845+05:30I totally regret giving a hit to this stupid page,...I totally regret giving a hit to this stupid page, which totally smells of aryan supremacy. <br /><br />I had to leave this comment here, just to let you (Jayashree) know that thiruvallur was never a devotee of rama, it sounds so stupid just like if i said that lord murugan was also born to rama and sita.<br /><br />When i type this comment i know this comment will not be published in your blog, because that's what you aryans do, hiding the truth from the world. But i had made my point well and to the right eyes(you).mohan.mallarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-2380244841714242762009-11-03T18:52:45.318+05:302009-11-03T18:52:45.318+05:30Here are some links to my posts on what Thirukkura...Here are some links to my posts on what Thirukkural says:-<br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-aryan-dravidian-divide-it-was-one_28.html<br /><br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-aryan-dravidian-divide-it-was-one_3029.html<br /><br /><br />http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-aryan-dravidian-divide-it-was-one_29.htmlJayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.com