tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post3231252955626895740..comments2024-03-18T22:56:06.696+05:30Comments on Jayasree Saranathan: Hanuman and Seetha conversed in Madhura language (Spoken language of ancient India –part 3)Jayasree Saranathan http://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-33699772920146402862020-12-12T15:47:48.406+05:302020-12-12T15:47:48.406+05:30@ Madhan Kumar
Namaskaram.
Normally the village ...@ Madhan Kumar<br /><br />Namaskaram.<br /><br />Normally the village names are traced to diverse causes. Paravakkal sounds more like 'bird's stone'. Mostly the name arises from some legend, some person, or a deity or a person elevated into a deity. In Paravakkal, find out if any legend with reference to some stone / rock / bird in the village.<br /><br />Vakkaal was more in use in literary circle. Unless the village was part of a Deva daana or Thaniyur created by a king, there are slim chances to relate the name to Vaakkal, Saraswati. <br /><br />Thanks for your comment on the series.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-23639627872361685082020-12-12T04:38:54.194+05:302020-12-12T04:38:54.194+05:30Namaskaram Ma.
Our village name is Paravakkal. In...Namaskaram Ma.<br /><br />Our village name is Paravakkal. In trying to find the meaning of the name we could understand "Para" & "Vāk" but not what the "kal" meant so far. <br /><br />Now that we know Vaakkal is Saraswati, we can assume that the village is named on The Divine Mother.<br /><br />Please provide your thoughts on,<br /><br />1. this assumption,<br />2. prefix para to Vaakkal and their meaning together,<br />3. Tamil letters for Vaakkal, mainly "l".<br /><br />Many thanks!<br /><br />This is a beautiful series on Madhuram!<br /><br />Pranam.Madhan Kumarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02337033088541173459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-89610997341758877292019-10-18T10:46:03.097+05:302019-10-18T10:46:03.097+05:30vaTa is virinda (spread) like vaTAM (fried flour) ...vaTa is virinda (spread) like vaTAM (fried flour) . vaTa for north itself came from the spread land of the north as opposed to the narrow peninsular land in south as well as the islands! banyan is derived from bania , vaNika. Traders exchanged goods under that tree. South Indianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12590425534134491472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-37851593141938851732018-02-24T20:39:18.911+05:302018-02-24T20:39:18.911+05:30You said,
// "Valmiki of Ramayana knew Tamil...You said, <br />// "Valmiki of Ramayana knew Tamil": Come on, The name Valmiki itself is Tamil. He was a Tamil as well spoken a different old dialect. Could you please explain it in Sanskrit, root by root?<br />val: strong in Tamil<br />miku: abundant, enough, more etc. in Tamil.<br />valmiku: with abundant strength (in for example: speaking, fighting, controlling etc.)<br />valmki: one with enough strength in poetry, language. It was his "pattap peyar", not the birth name.//<br /><br />Yes, Valmiki is a காரணப் பெயர். But you have given a wrong and funny though, interpretation for Valmiki. I don’t want to give you the background and meaning of Valmiki, you search it yourself. <br />Even the word you have given ‘val’ has Sanskrit root as bal -Bala - strength. But it is not val – it is vaal வால் in Vaalmiki (வால்மீகி). <br /><br />****<br /><br />You said, <br />// What is val and miki separately in Sanskrit. even val has roots as "va" and "l" meaning only in Tamil or the language called Madhuram - It was a good explanation though. <br />give me a Sanskrit word and the meaning, I will squeeze the Tamil root out of it.<br />I give you a word in Sanskrit: "thaithreya" in Thaithreya Upanishath. What is the meaning of "Thaithreya"? - Challenge.// <br /><br />வேண்டாம் சாமி. உங்களுக்குப் பெரிய கும்பிடு. உங்கள் ‘squeezing the Tamil root’- ஐ உங்களுடனேயே வைத்துக் கொள்ளுங்கள். Let my blog not become a parking place for your weird derivations. <br /><br />****<br /><br />You said,<br />// I highly appreciate your works, and have learned many things from it.<br />Thank you, keep doing.<br /><br />Deleting this comment or publishing is up to you, at least there is one reader. Thank you.//<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Won’t delete your comment, but request you not to bring your research to my blog.Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-55997530454768141512018-02-24T20:39:05.515+05:302018-02-24T20:39:05.515+05:30You said,
// Anuman (NOT HANUMAN - no meaning)spo...You said, <br />// Anuman (NOT HANUMAN - no meaning)spoke manushaya pasha means: he did not speak monkey (animal) language. that's what it means. People manipulate things for their agenda. Since there was no Sanskrit at that time, how could have he spoken Sanskrit. Sanskrit was not in Ashoka's Pillar!!!!! Could you show one evidence that the existence of the word "Sanskrit" in any work. //<br /><br />You say Anuman not Hanuman. Hanu in Sanskrit means ‘jaw’. Hanuma (that is how it is pronounced / written in Sanskrit. In Tamil we add dotted ‘n’) himself tells to Sita in Ashoka vana how he got that name. “हनूमान् इति विख्यातो लोके स्वेन एव कर्मणा” (Valmiki Ramayana -5-35-82). It is because of something he did he got the name Hanuma! The ‘something’ he did was to fly to catch the sun thinking that it was a fruit and fell down disfiguring his jaw. That gave him the name Hanuma. <br /><br />You say ‘manushaya pasha’ – you don’t seem to know the pronunciation in Tamil for language – it is Bhasha not Pasha. A Tamilian should know pa-ba difference in pronunciation. Today’s Tamils are woefully weak in knowing them. தமிழின் ஒலி வடிவம் தெரியாமல் இருக்கிறார்கள்<br /><br />You say there was no Sanskrit at that time. What is the proof? And do you know that Tamil itself is a proof of Sanskrit as long as it (Tamil) was in the past? <br /><br />Next you are talking about Ashoka pillar!!!! Do you know its time period? And do you know the time period of Ramayana? Browse my blog to know all that. <br /><br />Then you are asking whether the word Sanskrit existed in any work. I explained in the above article how and when the name of a language –say Madhuram – could have been mentioned in a work. A Sanskrit work would not be claiming that it is a Sanskrit work. <br /><br />If you want evidence for a Sanskrit work 2000 years ago, I will give from Silappadhikaram, chapter 17 ‘ Aaicchiyar Kuravai’ (ஆய்ச்சியர் குரவை), wherein Madhari calls upon everyone to enact Bala Charita drama (வால சரிதை நாடகம்) that was done by Krishna along with his sister and brother. Bala charita by Bhasa is the oldest existing drama in Sanskrit. That was known to Madhari and others of Madurai and enacted by them in Tamil! You can guess the antiquity of that drama in Sanskrit. <br /><br />****<br /><br />You said, <br />// Anuman: anu + ma + n (suffix) = ancient ( early, tiny etc) + manifestation = ancient man. related words: anumanam, anukirakam, anupavam, anu(atom) etc. Related (copied) names in other languages: Nuhman (Arabic), Neuman (German/English)- they wouldn't know the meaning either.<br />what is Hanu in Sanskrit anyway?//<br /><br />You are splitting Anuman: anu + ma + n (suffix)<br />Do you know that n suffix was very recent and not old Tamil? <br />The suffix was proposed by Bhavanadhi (not Pavanathi as given in wiki article) a Jain monk, in the 13th century work Nannool. It was not proposed by Tholkappiyam. <br /> <br />Next you give the meaning of anu as tiny. Again this is a gross blunder. What you mean is spelt as அணு in Tamil and not அனு or அநு as in anuman அனுமன் or அநுமன். Who is manipulating things for their agenda?<br /><br />Hanu means jaw in Sanskrit and I explained above how he got the name. The letter ‘ha’ was adapted as ‘a’ in Tamil to spell it as Anuman. <br /><br />You have given other words anumanam, anukirakam, anupavam – all these are Sanskrit words and are used in Tamil as per Tholkappiyam Sol Adhikaram sutra 401. <br /><br />Next, why do you bring in Arabic and German words? Ancient Tamils never allowed words from those languages into Tamil. First understand the 4 sol of Tholkappiyam in the way they have been given by Tholkappiyar.<br /><br />****<br /><br />(continued) Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-51300560832776660512018-02-24T20:38:29.561+05:302018-02-24T20:38:29.561+05:30@ Unknown (please name yourself)
You said,
// S...@ Unknown (please name yourself)<br /><br />You said, <br /><br />// Sanskrit was the latest compilation of the different dialects of Tamil spoken in those days. There was no bilingualism. you will one day come to that conclusion for sure. //<br /><br />What is the proof? Certainly I will not come to the conclusion you say.<br /><br />****<br />You said, <br />//In your earlier works, you have said that Tamil and Sanskrit were completely separate languages, now, I see a change in you your view.//<br /><br />Show me my article where I said that Tamil and Sanskrit were completely separate (or do you mean different) languages.<br /><br />****<br />You said, <br />//"mara mara => rama rama" will expose the true nature. They did not know that this would expose the true Tamil in it. Probably they did not expect that There would be a divide by some "outsiders". if you do more root analysis it will lead you only to Tamil. because Only in Tamil the root has meanings. In Tamil mara has meaning and rama has meaning as well. That's Tamil!!!!! maru, ramu mira, rami and you could make many more combinations with meaningful words!!!.//<br /><br />For your information the word ‘maram’ has no root or meaning in Tamil. It comes under idukuri peyar (இடுகுறிப் பெயர்) that comes to exist as it is without any assignable reason. Maram is an example for Idukuri peyar I learnt in my middle school. Any school child will be able to say this. But you think that maram has a root and a meaning. The words that have roots are KaraNa peyar (காரணப் பெயர்) Maram is not a KaraNa peyar.<br /><br />You say Rama has a meaning in Tamil. Such a meaning can be your creation, for there is no name starting with R / ra in Tamil. It is a Sanskrit word and has a root in Sanskrit. <br /><br />****<br /><br />You said, <br />// panchavati: what does "ati" means? it is Tamil. There are many examples I can show//<br /><br />Please don’t connect simply like this. In Tamil there is no ‘ati’, it is ‘adi’- foot. It is not panchavadi, it is Panchavati, which is split as Pancha + vata (वट) which means 5 banyan trees. Vata means Banyan tree. In Tamil nadu there are 2 places having the Sanskrit Vata in their names to denote banyan tree. They are Vatavaaranyeswar (வடவாரண்யேஸ்வரர்) temple at Tiruvallur and Vata patra sayee (வடபத்ர சாயீ) at Srivilli putthur. The word Vata in these names denote banyan – same as vati in Pachanvati <br /><br />****<br /><br />(continued) Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-27423531726771592092018-02-22T04:07:44.648+05:302018-02-22T04:07:44.648+05:30Dear, Madhuram explanation was excellent.
"Sa...Dear, Madhuram explanation was excellent.<br />"Sanskrit and Tamil were contemporary languages of Indian antiquity and probably there were many bilingual people". <br /><br />Sanskrit was the latest compilation of the different dialects of Tamil spoken in those days. There was no bilingualism. you will one day come to that conclusion for sure. In your earlier works, you have said that Tamil and Sanskrit were completely separate languages, now, I see a change in you your view.<br /><br />"mara mara => rama rama" will expose the true nature. They did not know that this would expose the true Tamil in it. Probably they did not expect that There would be a divide by some "outsiders". if you do more root analysis it will lead you only to Tamil. because Only in Tamil the root has meanings. In Tamil mara has meaning and rama has meaning as well. That's Tamil!!!!! maru, ramu mira, rami and you could make many more combinations with meaningful words!!!<br />panchavati: what does "ati" means? it is Tamil. There are many examples I can show.<br /><br />Anuman (NOT HANUMAN - no meaning)spoke manushaya pasha means: he did not speak monkey (animal) language. that's what it means. People manipulate things for their agenda. Since there was no Sanskrit at that time, how could have he spoken Sanskrit. Sanskrit was not in Ashoka's Pillar!!!!! Could you show one evidence that the existence of the word "Sanskrit" in any work. <br />Anuman: anu + ma + n (suffix) = ancient ( early, tiny etc) + manifestation = ancient man. related words: anumanam, anukirakam, anupavam, anu(atom) etc. Related (copied) names in other languages: Nuhman (Arabic), Neuman (German/English)- they wouldn't know the meaning either.<br />what is Hanu in Sanskrit anyway?<br /><br />"Valmiki of Ramayana knew Tamil": Come on, The name Valmiki itself is Tamil. He was a Tamil as well spoken a different old dialect. Could you please explain it in Sanskrit, root by root?<br />val: strong in Tamil<br />miku: abundant, enough, more etc. in Tamil.<br />valmiku: with abundant strength (in for example: speaking, fighting, controlling etc.)<br />valmki: one with enough strength in poetry, language. It was his "pattap peyar", not the birth name.<br /><br />What is val and miki separately in Sanskrit. even val has roots as "va" and "l" meaning only in Tamil or the language called Madhuram - It was a good explanation though. <br />give me a Sanskrit word and the meaning, I will squeeze the Tamil root out of it.<br />I give you a word in Sanskrit: "thaithreya" in Thaithreya Upanishath. What is the meaning of "Thaithreya"? - Challenge.<br /><br />I highly appreciate your works, and have learned many things from it.<br />Thank you, keep doing.<br /><br />Deleting this comment or publishing is up to you, at least there is one reader. Thank you.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07895740976893653481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-80624419307850384882014-07-02T19:59:54.665+05:302014-07-02T19:59:54.665+05:30Very interesting blog. Nice info. When I was a kid...Very interesting blog. Nice info. When I was a kid my granny used to tell the Valmiki story and how he was unable to say Rama. So the sages asked him to repeat Mara Mara (tree in Kannada). I always had this doubt how Valmiki new Kannada. This article makes it very clear. Tamil, Kannada, Telgu are close neighbors, and during Ramayana time might have been one tounge.Satwik Kashyaphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11435065228233970884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-6708225269843766482013-04-22T16:09:41.719+05:302013-04-22T16:09:41.719+05:30Thanks Mr Jijith for sharing your views.
By Maha...Thanks Mr Jijith for sharing your views. <br /><br />By Mahabharatha times,lot of changes in peoples and their languages had come to stay. The first vitiation must have happened in Parasurama's times, due to Parasurama himself. Parasurama did create a havoc in people that resulted in most people (of North and Central India in particular) losing existing ways of life and living in secrecy. When communities live in seclusion for long, language undergoes change and become distinct to themselves. Rama's times come close to Parasurama's and therefore the old order language system must have continued in Rama's times. This can not be said of Mahabharata times.<br /><br />More explanations are going to be written in future posts. I would point out Abiras' language (Apa Brahmsa) as the prominent manushya bhasha in Mahabharata times. I wish you look into Abiras language and Apa brahmsa and try to gather more info on them.<br /><br />On what you said in Telugu, it is possible if Telugu deviated from Tamil and became distinct as a language of its own. But the etymology of Telugu is derived from Trilinga -> Tailanga -> Telanga -> Thelungu. Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-52763771609229226232013-04-22T13:05:41.846+05:302013-04-22T13:05:41.846+05:30This article is more convincing than the previous ...This article is more convincing than the previous one in this series, in establishing that the 'other language' spoken by the ancients like Hanuman was an ancient form of Tamil which was then known as 'Madhura Bhaasha'. Telugu too, as far as I know, was formerly known as Tenugu - the nectar (te_n) like language. Thus Telugu / Tenugu is also a contenter for Madhura Bhasha. Probably it was an old language from which Tamil and Telugu (both considering itself to be Madhura / sweet / Te_n language) which was the original Madhura bhaasha spoken by Hanuman? We also know about a Madhu in North (in the line of Yadu). He was slain by Satrughna and his city later became northern Mathura. Did he a speaker of Madhura language? How a northern city Mathura and southern city Madhura / Madurai came to be named after Madhu / Madhuram / Te_n / nectar? What is the relationship of this Madhura language mentioned in Ramayana with the Mlechcha language mentioned in Mahabharata? It too is described as one of the bi-lingual language in which Vidura and Yudhisthira conversed to convey secret information. What is its relationship with Prakrit, Pali and Munda languages?Jijithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11863600917277312849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-57409350411990180302013-04-14T15:19:14.406+05:302013-04-14T15:19:14.406+05:30Thanks for the response.
The Manusham vaakyam tha...Thanks for the response.<br /><br />The Manusham vaakyam that Hanuman decides speak is strong proof of bilingualism in those times. Madhuram vaacham was often mentioned along with "arthavat" - full of meanings. Mr Narayana Iyengar who originally mooted this idea (of Madhuram as a colloquial form of Tamil) has analysed this angle. But this language was fairly developed at that time and had enough vocabulary to express thoughts and meanings.<br /><br />regards,<br />Jayasree<br />Jayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3442555339667770589.post-15816976822366221952013-04-14T15:18:43.058+05:302013-04-14T15:18:43.058+05:30
Shree Vinekar wrote:
(http://sookta-sumana.blog...<br />Shree Vinekar wrote:<br /><br />(http://sookta-sumana.blogspot.in/)<br /><br />On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 <br />at 12:45 PM, <br /><br /> Thanks for sharing. Glanced through the article =quite interesting, also logical that both Sanskrit and Tamil were contemporary languages of Indian antiquity and probably there were many bilingual people. <br /><br />-Shree VinekarJayasree Saranathan https://www.blogger.com/profile/01048252011566427834noreply@blogger.com