If there is something called as the height of absurdity which qualifies the narrator of that absurdity to be sent to a mental asylum, here it is – the so-called commentary of Purusha suktha written by one Prof M.M.Ninan.
http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/PDF/Sri%20Purusha%20Suktam.pdf
This is only a sample piece. Ninan has laid his hand on other Hindu texts also, with the claim that they are all the by-products of Christian Thought formed after the birth of Jesus Christ. By his "commentaries" to Hindu texts like Purusha Suktham and Upansihads, Ninan is only exposing the paucity of religious literature in Christianity and its dependence on ideas stolen from other religions. If he wants to portray Jesus as Purusha, he can do it from a Christian angle. But when he attempts to say that Jesus is the Purusha of Hindu theology, he cannot do it without destroying every word of Purush Suktha. He has done that precisely. It is like saying that Jesus is like the brick, the basic constituent of a magnificent building. In order to prove that, he has demolished the entire building and picked up a brick from the rubble to say – "see, how this brick is solely responsible for the magnificence of the building" – while there is no building left there to show its magnificence.
The "commentary" on Purusha Suktha is the most atrocious one which can also be compared to an attempt to squeeze the holy and mighty Ganga into a bottle, thinking that the bottle (Jesus) will look like Ganga by doing so. But the fact of the matter is that the Ganga has no bounds in her stature and greatness whereas the bottle would only be an insignificant speck, getting swept by the Ganga in her course.
Purusha Suktham as the product of St Thomas!
Usually the Christian writers have an obsession with history. There are two reasons for this. One is that they don't know their own history. They rely on Jewish accounts and the Jews also do not know from where they came or where their promised land exists. This is typically an identity crisis and the crisis of ancestry for Christian Thought. The second reason is that they want to inject their Christian identity into the local history wherever they go, because by doing that, it becomes easy for them to brainwash the locals and 'harvest' their souls. Ninan's job comes under the second category.
As far as Hindu texts are concerned, Puranas and Ithihasas are the historical documents of which the Ithihasas (Ramayana and Mahabharata) are highly descriptive of not only the history of Bharath but also the people as far as the Central Europe. On the other hand, the Vedas and Sukthas are oral works of religious and spiritual application. They are not historical documents. Strangely the Mlechas (non-Vedic people) are attracted to them and do their best to extract history from them. They did it with Rig Vedas. Ninan is only an extension of that crop though he was born to Indian parents coming in a long chain of Hindu heritage.
He claims to trace the 'historical development' of Purusha Suktham and concludes that the first 5 verses were the legacy of St Thomas, thereby pushing the history of Hinduism to post- Thomasian period, that is, after the 2nd century AD.
In the introduction he says as follows:-
"Thus for simple logical reason only the first 5 verses can be considered to form part of the original Purusha Suktha. And these have a definite Christian theology which came into the Indian sub-continent by the first century AD with the advent of St.Thomas the disciple of Jesus. Thomas' first converts were Jewish and Jewish mysticism known as Kaballa is reflected in the Purusha Suktha. Kaballah considers the cosmos as a man with
four dimensions of existence – Divine, Spiritual, Mental and Material. Early Christians presented Jesus as this cosmic Man who pervaded all cosmos. One of the titles of Jesus was "Son of Man" or in Indian terminology Narayana or Purushotama (Great Man).
The Purusha Suktha therefore contains various layers of historical development.
The first innermost layer was the Thomasian layer following the teachings of St.Thomas during his twenty year ministry in India. This was augumented by the Judao-Christian mysticism of Kaballa. These essentially fall within the first five verses. However following the ministry of Manichaen, whose ministry covered all over India starting from the North to the South, we see another layer, the Gnostic layer, where the gods and seers become the creators of the lower worlds.
Later layers come in simply as an attempt to introduce Vishnavism into the Purusha Suktham which must have come very recently after Vaishnavism became popular. It may have been just a few interpolations within the old document also. Most of the apparent difficulties which commentators struggle will disappear as we see this historical realiy. Interpolations makes it difficult to exactly pin point which layer belongs to which period and which portions of a documents are redactions and interpolation. As you go through this commentary you will be able to make your own judgement."
His claim that Vaishnavism was a post 2nd century AD development is the most absurd one. There are hard historical or archaeological facts to show that Vishnu and worship of Vishnu was in India much before the mythical St Thomas and not after him as claimed by Ninan. To substantiate this let me quote just one incident of a non Indian from outside India who embraced Vishnu Bhakthi. A Greek (Yavana) from Takshashila (Taxila) by name Heliodorus, declared himself as a devotee of Vasudeva and inscribed it in a pillar near Sanchi stupa. The importance of this inscription is that it was carved in 110 BCE, nearly 200 years before the mythical Thomas from whom Ninan claims that Vedic Thought, puranas and Ithihasas sprang up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliodorus_pillar
The place of Heliodorus, namely Takshashila has a farther antiquity into Ithihasic narrations. It was the city originally founded by Thaksha, son of Bharatha who was Rama's younger brother. It was the city where Mahabharatha was narrated for the first time to Pareekshit, the only surviving progeny of the Pandavas after the Mahabharatha war.
All these are hot iron poured into the ears of Ninan-like people. They have no respect for facts, history and Vedic religion. All they know is to tell falsehood or deride Vedic religion.
The very native place of Ninan, namely Kerala where he claims that St Thomas landed, has a different history for itself. Kerala is already a land retrieved from waters by none other an avatar of Vsihnu namely Parasurama.
When the British came, the Era of Parasurama was still in vogue in Kerala. There was no Thomasian memory in Kerala then. The colonial writers have recorded it in the Journal of Asiatic Society that "extending from Mangalore, through the provinces of Malabar, Cotiote and Travacore to cape Comorin" the era of Parasurama was in use. This era has a cycle of 1000 years with the New year starting at the time sun enters Virgo. They have clearly written that this era "derives its name from a prince who is supposed to have reigned 1176 years before Christ, the epoch being 7th August 3537 Jup.Per. or 1925 Kaliyug."
(source:-
Parasurama's time goes to the time of Rama of Ramayana and hence the Parasurama, the prince in whose name the Parasurama Era was started in the stretch mentioned above, must have been the person who came in the lineage of rulers to whom Parasurama entrusted the ruler-ship. There is inscriptional evidence to show that a race established by Parasurama did rule Kerala regions. From the inscriptions found in 2 places, one in the temple of Rajarajeswara of Tanjore, written in AD 1031 and another in a hillock near Polur written in AD 1024 during the reign of Rajendra Chola –I, it is known that the Crown held by the kings anointed by Parasurama in an island called Chandhima was captured by this Chola king. The description says "seruviR sinavi irupatthorukaal arasu kaLai katta Parasuraman mevarum Chandhimath theevvaaraN karuthi iruththuya sempon thiruth thagu mudiyum" (செருவிற் சினவி இருபத்தொருகால் அரசு களை கட்ட பரசுராமன் மேவருஞ் சாந்திமத்தீவவரண் கருதி இருத்திய செம்பொன் திருத்தகு முடியும்).
A corroboratory narration is found in a 12th century book called "Mooshika vamsa kaaviyam" tells about one Ramaghata Mushika as the founder of this dynasty. He was born to the wife of a king killed by Parasurama in his war against the kshatriyas of Mahishmathi and the adjoining regions in Madhya Pradesh and North India. This widowed woman who was pregnant at that time took shelter in Yezhil hill (Mushika Giri or Eli malai – Kazargod of today). Later her son was crowned as the king by Parasurama himself and from him the Mushika dynasty came into being. A king of this dynasty by name Nannan is already found in Sangam texts. These kings were largely responsible for establishing temples of Vishnu in Kerala. The land called Mushika is found mentioned in Mahabharatha also, in the description of Sanjaya as one among the countries in South India. If with all this background history of Kerala, Ninan chooses to ignore them, it only shows his lack of respect for facts and history.
Apart from history and archaeology, scientific streams such as genetics and astronomy are also becoming useful tools to unravel history. Research after research in genetics is proving that India had served as an incubator for many thousands of years for man out of Africa to settle down and grow into well developed societies. It is from the Indian sub-continent, people and Thought had gone out to Middle East and Europe, on quite a few occasions in the past, and not vice versa.
Looking at Astronomy as a tool for dating history, a couple of researches do exist showing the antiquity of Ramayana and Mahabharata dated far back the Christian era. Even the pet theme of Ninan, namely the Rig Veda has left a legacy in the form of Rig Jyothisha by sage Lagadha which clearly state the uttarayana position at Dhanishta at the time of writing. This puts the date of that work at approximately 3600 years ago before present.
In the backdrop of diverse fields of science and arts becoming dynamic tools to understand history and the ancient texts of India, it is time the Vatican puts a stop to absurd researches and methods to intrude other religions, particularly the Hindu religion.
Distortion of Hindu concepts.
The Hindu concept of God-head is one Supreme God becoming many. Whatever it becomes, it enters into that and becomes the In-dweller. It is the object and also the In-dweller. It also means that the entire universe is its body and it has permeated throughout. This In-dweller is known as Purusha.
Purusha is 'puryam shete iti: purusha:' -the one who is resting in the house. From this word sprang pur, pura, puram (of Tamil too) and suffixes for names for cities. When we say Durgapur or Nagpur, it means these places have been recognised or sensed by people as having been specifically pervaded by the grace / energy of Durga and Naga respectively. Beyond this perception, the fact remains that Purusha exists in every manifestation of the Universe.
Purusha suktham is presented in a specific sequence, starting from a macro cosmic creation and Purusha's omnipresence in everything and how this manifestation must be sustained by yajnas as root of Dharma so that Glory is attained. Yajna does not mean sacrifice or killing but is a process of transformation of one into another which is done in a spirit of give and take so that equilibrium is maintained in Nature. My old article on this concept can be read here.
Pithru yajna – Yajna is to restore equilibrium!
But Ninan would have us think that Thomas and his 'religion' were killed / sacrificed and Hinduism was built from that sacrifice!!
Writing on the 8th verse of Purusha Suktham, Ninan says:-
" We know from history that Brahma, Vishnu and Siva and all the host of the
modern Hindu gods were the product of post-Christian period in India, after the ministry of Thomas from AD 52 to 72.
The very idea and the term of Isa as Iswara came only after that. Thus this statement is simply the statement of how The Isai religion was destroyed (killed – sacrificed) and how the concepts and ideas of Isai were taken out and used in the recreation of a new religion by the domination of Brahmins.
This brought in the caste system and a host of new gods and the Vedas and the puranas and the ithihasas. This is described in the next verses. This is the origin of Hinduism. It emerged as a new religion by sacrificing the central Purusha of the Christian religion as brought in by St. Thomas. When the person of Christ is removed from Christianity what we get is Hinduism. Then out of the remanants are made myths legends and puranas in typical Gnostic fashion following the Manichaen ministry in India."
The biggest falsehood spread by Ninan is his contention that the very term and the idea of Iswara came into Hindu Thought only after Thomas. Only a person of deranged mental faculties or a complete fool can make such a claim. Leaving aside the numerous proofs for Ishwara in the Indian texts from pre- Christian era, I am just asking him one simple question. Does he mean to say that the "Isatwam" (ஈசத்துவம்) having the term 'Isa" or "Ishwara" - which is one among the 8 siddhis (ashtamaa-siddhis) is a post- Thomasian development? If he says yes, does he agree that the Isa or Jesus or whomever he has in mind when he said Isa, was not an accomplished one at all – was not a siddha-like person at all – or in other words, that Isa was only an ordinary mortal who could not claim anything extraordinary for himself? If he says no, then he has to agree that the concept of Brahman or Purusha or transcendence to the level of Brahman was in existence much before Thomas and Jesus. The ashtamasiddhis are nothing but extraordinary qualities that are comparable to the qualities of the Supreme Purusha. I think Mr Ninan had to do a much tougher homework to establish his Isa as an extraordinary being.
And then he tells us that the Trinity of Hinduism was a post-Thomasian development! If so, does he think that the Tamil sangam poem from Paripaadal -1 came up in post Thomasian period? This poem calls Thirumaal (Vishnu) as Siva and Brahma. ( ainthalai uyariya anangudai arumthiral mainthudai oruvanum, madangalum nee... poovanum naattramum nee- lines 43 to 46 ஐந்தலை உயரிய அணங்குடை அருந்திறல் மைந்துடை ஒருவனும் மடங்கலும் நீ... பூவனும், நாற்றமும் நீ). The paripaadal poems are said to be the oldest among Sangam poems. There is even a poem found in Paripaadal that gives the precise position of planets in the sky at the time of composition of that poem (paripaadal 11). Commentators have deduced that such planetary alignment occurred in BC 161. But when you check it in computer software, the date tallies with BC 1042!! Such is the antiquity of this poem which is found in the compilation of Paripaadal.
Who is the Purusha?
There is yet another poem in Paripaadal which gives a similar description of the Purusha of the Purusha Suktha to none other than Thirumaal (Vishnu). There is one Purusha or a Purushotthama. He cannot be equated with any other deity of Hindu pantheon, except Narayana. He is the All pervading Brahman which is once again equated with Narayana only. This is the Final inference of the Vedas and all Vedantha according to Acharyas of all the three paths. None had challenged it and none can challenge it anytime. While such is the nature of Purusha, here is a 'pulluruvi'(புல்லுறுவி) – claiming Jesus as Purusha!
The Purusha Suktha begins with a description of Purusha as having 1000 heads, 1000 eyes and 1000 legs. Nianan's Christian friends abroad would say quits if they were asked to project Jesus in a form having so many heads and eyes and legs. But Ninan has no problem in 'fixing' these organs to Jesus somehow, for, fools do not need rules to follow before they utter something. They can speak whatever comes in their mouth. For whatever he says on Jesus as having multiple organs, only his Tamil counterparts such as Deivanayagam would have to do a tough job in justifying his explanation.
The reason is that there is a beautiful description of Thirumaal (Vishnu) in Paripaadal -3 which gives the details of the number of hands that Vishnu has. The number goes far beyond hundreds of thousands and upto an uncountable number called "aambal"! Either they have to prove that Jesus indeed was this multiple handed Vishnu or they have to establish that this song was composed in post-Thomasian period. They cannot do the latter because Paripaadal is older than 2000 years. It was composed in 1st sangam or even the 2nd sangam period and certainly not in the 3rd sangam period. Uruththirasanman (Tamil form of Rudra-janman), the last Pandyan king to have hosted the 3rd sangam lived sometime in the 1st or 2nd century AD according to many cross references. So Paripaadal clearly precedes 1st century AD.
The poem says,
" oru kai (ஒரு கை)
Iru kai maal (இரு கை மால்)
Mukkai muniva (முக்கை முனிவ)
naaRkai aNNal (நாற்கை அண்ணல்)
aimkai maintha (ஐங்கை மைந்த)
aRukai neduvEl (அறுகை நெடுவேள்)
ezukai yaaLa (எழுகையாள)
eNkai Enthal (எண்கை ஏந்தல்)
onpathiRRu thadakkai manpEraaLa (ஒன்பதிற்றுத் தடக்கை மன்பேராள)
pathiRRuk kai mathavali (பதிற்றுக் கை மதவலி)
nURRuk kai aaRRal (நூற்றுக்கை யாற்றல்)
aayiram viriththa kai maayamaLLa (ஆயிரம் விரித்த கை மாயமள்ள)
pathinaayiram kai muthumozi muthalva (பதினாயிரம் கை முதுமொழி முதல்வ)
nooraayiram kai aarari kadavuL (நூறாயிரம் கை ஆற்றி கடவுள்)
anaitthumalla pala vadukkal aambal (அனைத்து மல்லபல வடுக்க ஆம்பல்)
inaiththena eNvarambu ariyaa yaakkaiyai" (இனைத்தென எண் வரம்பறியா யாக்கையை)
This passage gives the number of hands that Vishnu has. Each number has a relevance and explanation for the greatness of Vishnu. The numbers mentioned are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 100,1000, 10,000, 100,000 and then a non-countable number called Ambal.
The Tamils had visualised such a great figure for Vishnu. Can Ninan quote a single line from his book to say that Jesus has atleast 4 hands? He would say that it is idolatry and cult worship which Christianity does not believe in. If he does not believe that, he cannot give an aura of a Purusha to Jesus or Isa. Because the forms and idols of Hinduism are nothing but symbolic representations of concepts such as Purusha.
Ninan knows that such a Purusha is a cosmic figure, but still wants to say that "It is very probable that Jesus identified himself with the primordial or Cosmic Person in saying "... before Abraham was I am" (John 8:58)."
No probables Mr Ninan. Give one straight expression from your texts. You cannot give, but you want to say that Purusha Suktha is a Thomasian idea and Jesus was the Purusha.
The absurdity of this claim is that he thinks Purusha is a man. He calls Jesus as Purusha, the first man. But the Purusha of Purusha Suktha is not a man, not even the first or a second or a third man. This Purusha is One and All. He IS, that is all. In him everything happens. Everything grows, everything thrives and flourishes. If you know how this happens, you can get whatever you want from Him– that is the import of Purusha Suktha.
It is like tapping the energy of the Sun, to give an example. Sun is like Purusha – having countless hands of rays and countless heads of knowledge. Everything thrives under that, and owes their growth to that. Anything and everything can be Saadhya – become possible under the sun and due to the sun – only if you know the nature of sun. You can tap energy from the Sun of hundreds of thousands of hands for diverse uses, only if you know what Sun is, how it exists and what things it makes possible. This is the core concept of Pursha Suktham.
The multitudes of organs are so told to express the Infiniteness of the Purusha. The Infinite contains in itself all that is finite. All the people including Jesus are finite beings. Since we owe our existence to that Infinite, we call it as the One and Only One and the source of all creation. People like Ninan can pick up only words. He looks at the word and its dictionary meaning and call Jesus as the First One from whom all men came!
His atrocious comparison sees no rhyme or reason in comparing Jesus with Isavasya Upanishad passage. For the 2nd verse of Purusha Suktham (page 12), he says,
"The same idea is repeated is the Isa Upanishad first verse.
"Isavasyamidam sarvam yatkiñca jagatyam jagat |
tena tyaktena bhuñjitha ma grdhah kasyasvid dhanam || 1 ||
Jesus is immanent in this entire universe –
whatever in this universe, animate or inanimate.
By Him is given sacrificially what is given for your enjoyment.
Therefore do not try to gain some one else's wealth."
Isavasya Upanishad was originally a teaching given by a sage by name Dathyang Atharvana to his son when he became qualified to receive the teaching by having given up all desires except the desire for Liberation (Moksha). There is absolutely no question of desiring another man's wealth. The above verse also does not speak about Ishwara giving materials for enjoyment. The one who has conquered all desires is fit to receive the teaching. In other words, the first and foremost quality for one to become eligible to receive this teaching is to give up desire. Highlighting this in this verse as the fore most quality, the sage continues to teach his son. This knowledge is "Guhyathamam saastram" – says Krishna to Arjuna (Bhgavad Gita – 15 20) – secret knowledge. When this gets translated into written words and a non believer in Vedas attempts to explain it, anartham (wrong interpretation) springs up. That is what has happened through Ninan's pen!
But Ninan does not seem to follow what he had written. He says that one should not gain someone else's wealth? Doesn't this apply to him? Is he not stealing the Upanishad and Purusha Suktham from Hinduism to suit his own theories of Christianity? Has Christianity taught him to steal like this?
Creation verses of Purusha suktham.
The next three verses of Purusha Suktha are the best verses on Creation from which scientists can borrow better ideas on Creation. The idea is that not everything of Purusha is found manifest at any time. Only one fourth is manifest while the rest (three-fourth) are in unmanifest form. I have already explained this in the following articles:-
Cosmic egg- Nataraja and Chakratthazhwar in unison!
Shiva - Vishnu at Chidambaram – a cosmic scene unveiled.
The form of Nataraja best depicts the one fourth of manifestation in endless cycles and circles. It can be shown as follows.
The basic geometry of the ¼ division can be secured like the following from the image of Nataraja. There are 108 forms of Nataraja according to Patanjali, and what is given below is just one among them. This means the act of creation, manifestation and deluge are happening in 108 ways of which the depiction given below is that of Creation at the macrocosmic level.
The same concept is depicted in the form of ChakkaraththaLwar.
The Christians despise these kinds of depictions, as Christianity has no cosmic consciousness or a scientific approach to the existence of man or God. But they have no problem in stealing the basic shapes behind these concepts.
For example, their 6 pointed star is the Hindu depiction of a yantra that has several meanings and applications. The 6 pointed shape in the above depiction of Nataraja and ChakkarathaLwar looks as follows:
This is the Kolam (an art form) meant for Jupiter and also the basic form in many yantras of worship in Hindu system. Nataraja and ChakkarathaLwar are inscribed within this, conveying many meanings of cosmic and spiritual relevance.
This shape can be further reduced to basic concepts of Shiva and Durga – the two complementary concepts of Purusha which is expressed in the last verse "Hri cha te lakshmi" in the recital of Purusha Suktham which Ninan has ridiculed.
When we say Brahman, it is one Whole.
But when we say Purusha, it has two components.
When Brahman starts "Shrishti" (erroneously translated as Creation as there is no exact English word to convey the meaning) it becomes two. The two are the male – female concepts which are complementary to each other. Like this there are many pairs of complementary nature in the created worlds. One among them is the day- night concept, expressed as "Ahoratre paarsve" in the last passage of Purusha suktham rendition. When we say Purusha, it means that it has two components which are complementary to each other and which cannot become perfect in the absence of the other. That is the basis of marriage concept in Hinduism which the Western society is woefully wrong in understanding. The two-some Purusha tattwa becomes the basis for further creation. The same is applicable to man-woman pair also who become the cause for progeny. People like Obama who fail to realise the complementary nature of this pair, make funny concepts of 'equality' in parenthood justifying same sex marriages.
The two-some existence of the Cosmic Pursuha is depicted in the 6 –pointed star which can be further reduced into the basic concepts.
One of it is the Kali Yanta (shown below)
The other is the Shiva Yantra (shown below)
When these two, Shiva – Parvathy tattva are merged, you get the 6 pointed star.
This form which shows the complementary nature of them (2 opposites) is the basis of most of the other forms of deities in Hindu culture. Non Vediks would see sexist concepts in these forms. But in reality, they depict some energy flows that can be tapped with mediation, recitals and works like Puja and Yajna. The basic idea is that the Name- Form-works (function) of anything in Nature exist together. For example, they say that a rose is a rose by whatever name you call it. But it is not so. A rose is a rose because of the specific fragrance it has. Whatever gives the same fragrance could be a rose only. Rose is the name, it has a specific appearance and a function (fragrance is the function of the rose). Like this everything in Nature has a form and function because of which it gets a name. All these three go together. Such a three-some identity is there for Purusha, for Brahman and for each of the God of the Hindu pantheon. Such a three-some nature is there for the 6 pointed shape depicted above. Only Hinduism has recognised the nature and utility and the ways and means to extract that utility of many things in Nature.
The Purusha of Purusha Suktha is the Purusha of all the created kshara (destructible material things) and akshara beings (non-destructible soul) of the Universe. It is the Purusha of every being and the In dweller of Jesus Christ too. Owing to its immense presence it is known as Purushotthama – the Supreme Purusha. That Purushotthama once descended on this earth with a name-form and function – That was the most celebrated Krishnavatara. (Bhagavad Gita chapter 15- verses 17 to 20). Any attempt to equate Christ with Krishna would simply be a misnomer because Krishna depicts all that is Purushotthama. He vibrated happiness, bliss and made people feel that. In contrast Jesus stands for pain, suffering and gloom. One becomes what one sees or experiences – this is a scientific reality which is also given in Brahma Sutras as "tatkruthu'. It means you become what you think. You think of suffering of Jesus, then you get gloomy. But you think of ecstatic posture of Krishna, you become happy. Hindu concepts have been made with deeper ideals in consonance with Nature and for the betterment of people. There is no other religion equal to it. Christianity is certainly not equal to it.
Continuing with the symbols, the 6-pointed star has gone out of India to Egypt, and from there to Jewish literature and from them to Christianity.
The horned (due to meditation) siddha of Indus seals was adopted as Cernunnos of the Celtic cult.
The image given below is found in Indus and its relevance can be read here.
Geography, geo-dynamics and Peoples in Puranas – what Valdiya knows, Witzel doesn't know!
This image is that of a siddha in mediation on Kundalini at the penultimate level of Realisation.
This idea is depicted in Cernunnos as shown below.
The depiction of Cernunnos as found in Egypt (Thebes) is as follows sporting a pentacle on the head as a symbol of realisation of a kind of Energy level.
The Pentacle is the basic structure of Shyama Kali yantra in Hinduism. (shown below)
This is an ancient concept of Matri worship or worship of Mother concept. This by itself a distinct concept which I will write as a separate article sometime later. In the present context, suffice to say that Kali or Saptha matha worship would be prevalent in regions which were once forest regions or regions that were once uninhabitable. Wherever a land is cleared for new settlements, there they had to worship the female concept or Kali. It is only apt to see the sages meditating in forests gaining the energy of the pentacle. Pentacle is the basic symbol of this worship which was adopted in many parts of Europe as they became habitable. Its root however is in ancient India only.
Another symbol is the Pentacle of Solomon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentacle
It has a 5 pointed star in the middle surrounded by a 7 pointed structure at the outer. The 7 pointed structure is the shape traced by the Rahu in 7 days of the week. There is an ancient concept in Hindu Thought and Vastu that the ascending point of intersection of the moon's path in earth's path called as Rahu is shifting in specific directions in a methodical way for the 7 days of the week. This is repeated for ever for the 7 days in sequence. Until western education replaced the traditional education of India, this every-day shift of Rahu was known to common man. People would not dig the ground or start a work for the designated few minutes in the direction everyday when Rahu will be moving in the direction. The points of Rahu's movement for the 7 days make a pentacle, the knowledge of which was useful in guarding oneself form misadventures. It will look as follows.
The 7 pointed structure of the Solomon's pentacle is a copy of this, without taking up the exact meaning.
Like this wherever possible, the symbols have been lifted from Hindu Thought without knowing the meaning of them and without knowing how to use them to derive the expected result. The knowledge of these symbols and their results is found only in Hindu Thought. And they continue to be in use only in Hindu practices.
Coming to other ideas of Christianity, the cross as it is depicted today is a later development (after 5th century AD). It was derived from the spokes of dharma chakra of Hindu Thought. The Solar and Lunar dynasties have been the two prominent races of India from times of yore. Almost all the kingdoms of India come under any one of them. All of them swore by Dharma which was depicted as a wheel. The Chakra, the sun, the moon and the fish are among the ashta mangala (auspicious) symbols of Royals in India which continued to be exhibited until foreign invasions overtook them. Among the deities the single horned Varaha was identified with Dharma according to Mahabharatha.
The symbol of wheel associated with unicorn is what we see in the Indus symbols.
In Hindu Thought, the Unicorn is Varaha – an avatar that stood for Dharma. Details can be read here:
Symbolism of Unicorn in Sanatana Dharma
The image of Unicorn in hundreds of Indus seals establishes the prevalence of that concept in India 5000 years before present. Perhaps the silver seal with Varaha image found in Mohenjadaro (below) was the legal tender of money in the Indus city.
Varaha was the name of money in Chalukya and Vijayanagara kingdoms and was in circulation until 400 years ago. It had the image of Varaha engraved on gold.
Varaha was the Royal emblem of many dynasties in India. The interesting feature is that the image of Chakra (wheel) accompanies the Varaha.
The picture below shows the Chalukya symbol ( 6th century AD found at Aihole) having the image of Varaha (single horned boar) and a wheel of four spokes formed by two lines intersecting at right angles.
Chalukyas were staunch Vedic people who were in power in the first millennium AD. The wheel depicted here is very much a Hindu symbol, reinforced by the other images namely Conch (shanku) and the mirror which are Ashta mangala (8 auspicious) symbols.
The interesting information is that this chakra symbol is copied in St Thomasian cross. Below is the Cross of the St Thomas which was later to the Chalukya period. Note the crossing of two lines cutting each other into equal halves and inscribed within a circle.
http://folks.co.in/blog/2009/11/07/st-thomas-in-india-myth-or-truth
What does this show?
Who copied from whom?
The Canterbury Cross of the 5th – 6th century also has the similar depiction of the cross inscribed within the circle. (Below)
The symbol of Georgia had a similar cross.
The Georgian connection goes back to Parasurama's times, when kshatirya friends of Karta veeryarjuna fled for life. The names associated with Kartavirya such as Mushika – Mahishmathi, Talajangha and Kol-sarpa etc resemble the names of early Georgians such as Kartveli, Mushki, Colchians etc. Their war dances such as Khorumi is similar to 'Kuravai" which were danced in the front and at the back of the king's chariot in the battlefield. This dance was prevalent throughout India even from Mahabharatha times onwards.
The Georgians were in all probability the friends of Kartavirya or his relatives themselves who fled towards Northwest India when Parasurama went on a prolonged war path against them. Many others scattered throughout India whose descendants are still there as known from the Census reports in colonial India. An important feature of them is that they had to hide their military prowess to deceive Parasurama. The war dances of Georgia are like how a society which was once known for its military skills had to keep up that skill from dying without actually engaging in war. If such a people who had once flourished in India with all its Vedic practices had gone to far off places, they would have carried the symbols of Vedic life. The Chakra (wheel) with the cross (as above) is a residual memory of that symbol.
Unicorn concept went from India to Christianity
Unicorn (Varaha) is a unique animal associated with Hindu tradition only. Even though Vishnu is the Eka shringi – having a single horn on the head, a sage by name Rushya shringa was associated with women! He was a highly accomplished one in spiritual matters in such a way that he was the only one capable of doing a yajna called Putra kameshti yaaga which he did for the sake of King Dasaratha. The result of that was the birth of none other than Rama, the avatar of Vishnu.
The interesting episode about this sage is that he who was a bachelor not having known any female in his life, was tamed by a maiden. The same concept has spread to Europe and was incorporated in their myths in the last millennium. The first mention of unicorn comes in Jewish Bible from which Christian Bible had borrowed. Later on Jesus himself was portrayed as the Unicorn. This is a clear case of adoption of a Hindu concept as there are accounts in Europe itself saying that Unicorns were native to India.
Before concluding this long article let me point out that even the birth date of Jesus Christ was a theft from Mithraic concept which had its roots in Hinduism. Mitra is the friend of cattle and is the cause for rains in Hindu texts. He always tows behind the Sun. Any ray of sun has the distribution of Mitra and other entities (Devas) which are none other than energy pockets of Nature. They are depicted as follows in the vastu diagrams.
The unique feature of this is that Mitra, varuna and Indra have a mutual relationship. While Indra stands for thunderbolt, Mithra signifies the rains and Varuna the ocean (water body). According to the meteorological condition of the Indian sub continent, which is dependent on south west monsoon, the conditions for rain appear well in advance. To put it differently, a place would receive rains, 195 days after the sighting of the conception symptoms for rain in that place. There are elaborate explanations for this in Brihad samhita by Varahamihira. This is also found expressed in early sangam texts in Tamil. By this it is meant that Mitra – the friend of the cattle is associated with rain formation which can be predicted 195 days beforehand. Depending on the rain conception, a place would receive rain after 195 days.
The Mitrhraic calendar also falls on the 196th day. The Persian festival of Mehargan has the symptoms of this Mithraic concept. The pre Harappan Mehrgarh is in all likelihood the location of Mithraic Thought. By this we can conclude that Mithraism was borrowed from Hinduism.
In all probability, the kshatriyas driven out by Parasurama settled in Mehrgarh and started adopting pastoral life. It has always been that the Kshtriyas when degraded from their status became cattle rearers. If they were the ones who fled the Narmada region (Mahishmathi of Kartavurya) and settled in Mehrgarh, they would have certainly carried the memory of Mitra and prayer for rains to grow fodder for the cattle. But that region was not supportive of rains that come after 195 days. The result was that Mitraism degenerated in due course. Instead of seeing Mitra as the friend of cattle, he was seen as one who gave people the cattle as their food. Mitra came to be depicted as one who would kill the bull and feast on that.
The important information for this article is that the date December 25th was an important date in Mithraism. It was the New Year day or the Birth day of Mithra according to Mithraism! Until the advent of Christ this date marked a popular festival date in Europe. This date was hijacked by Christian writers and made the birth day of Jesus Christ.
Looking at this date, this in all probability must have been the winter solstice (uttarayana) at the time Mithra cult started. The counting of days and watching of the sky for the rain-conception start around winter solstice even now. Today the winter solstice occurs on 21st December. The movement of solstices is based on the oscillation of the axis of earth by which the solstice moves 27 degrees forward and backward on both sides of zero degree of Capricorn. Based on this, the maximum extent the winter solstice could go was upto 18th December. Then it would start moving forward. December 25th marks a forward date in the past. From there it had gone upto 27 degrees in Capricorn and come back again to where it is now (at 6 degrees Sagittarius). At the rate of precession of 72 years per degree, it is seen that the last time winter solstice began on December 25th was nearly 7056 years ago before present. (Approximately 98 degrees in to and fro motion multiplied by 72). This is exactly the time Mehrgarh flourished with a civilisation which was predominantly pastoral. It was also the time Parasurama lived. This is ascertained from the period of Ramayana as calculated at around BC 5114 by Dr Pushkar Bhatnagar using the astronomy software.
Details can be read in this link:-
Rama's birth date.
Parasurama was a contemporary of Rama of Ayodhya. A group that managed to escape Parasurama's wrath had settled in Mehrgarh and followed the Mitra worship for rains. But that location cannot support the rain calculation that was / is applicable to the rest of India. Mehrgarh was rain deficient and in course of time, the settlers have dispersed. In all probability they had moved westward to Persia. The date of Mithra was remembered and celebrated as Mehargan festival in Persia. That date came to stay in the calendars that evolved in those regions.
The symbolism of Mitra was forgotten. He who had to bless people with cattle wealth by means of sufficient rains for the growth of pastures, came to be considered as one who gives the cattle to people as food! Mitra's date stayed on in memory as an important one and therefore incorporated into Christianity.
The date of Christ is not his own but borrowed from a cult which once had its roots in India. With all that, how they are shamelessly claiming that Hinduism is an off shoot of Christianity!!
Down the ages, the Hindu concepts and symbols have been stolen and misinterpreted as shown above. With all that these concepts have survived in their original relevance in India mainly because of Hindus who have followed them without interference. Now with the kind of breaches the likes of Ninan are making, there is a real threat to preservation of Hindu concepts. Of inconsolable breach is what he has said for the 'Hri cha te' verse. One must hear the intonation of that particular verse recited at the end of Purusha Suktham. Just by listening to it and even repeating it countless times, I think one can get newer insight into what the sages have revealed.
In my present level of understanding I have three explanations for this which I am sharing in the next post.
Jayasree, I am baffled at the wealth of scientific knowledge you have poured out in the blog emphasizing the falsehood of christianity and the person called jesus himself.
ReplyDeleteThat does not bother me 'cause their religion, man made, is more of a successful business school than faith. Hence, neither does Ninan's foolish claim nor his justifications amount to much attention since it would only confuse your knowledge in it.
But I am truly inspired by your blog. Thanks a lot for the detailed and word to word rebuttal to Ninan. Sadly even Ninan would not understand half of the scientific details you have highlighted here, rather, he might try and *steal* these valuable information and try to incorporate it into their book, the bible..perhaps.
Thank you.
Pro British writers like R D Bhandarkar also condemnned concept of Shiva and Vishnu both. He understood Siva and Rudra only as fallus worshippers, ignoring 8 chapter description in Yajurveda itself. He also declared complete Purush sukta as a later interpolation to show that Narayana or Vishnu was inserted later on by Bhagavata sect in 6th century AD. For such services indestruction of vedas, he was rewarded by British and an institute in his name continues that 'good' work. To deny Vishnu, he has to deny the whole Rigveda, but pro British writers, do not bother to raed or understand anything.
ReplyDeleteThere is another interpratation of Mushik state. Muzaffar Ali in his Geography of Puranas has called it regions around Hyderabad on banks of Musi (Mushik) river.
Recently, a long underground wall of about 6000 BC has been found off Mangalore-Cochin coast. Its detail description and size is correctly given in Brahmanda and oter puranas as undersea town built by Parashurama. I am sending the details separately.
Regions of Parashurama are spread from Parashurama Kunda at Dibrugarha (Asam) to Kurds on Iraq-Turkey border. For holding the 'Khura' (hoof) of Kamadhenu for fighting Sahasrarjna, they were called Khuradha (Kurd). Their region is also called Taurus mountain. Between Gaya-Varanasi on UP-Bihar border, there is a town calld Sasaram (Sahasra-rama = Parashuama) where his birth-place temple was an octagonal building in a pond, now called Shershah-Maqabra. Nearby place called Jamania is stated to be place of Jamadagni. Places of Parashuram in Orissa-Chhattisgarh are called Tangi and Parashurama as Tangi-baba (wielder of battle-axe).
Muxaffar Ali in his Geography of Puranas has identified Mushika s regions around Hyderabad (AP) on banks of Musi (Mushik) river).
ReplyDeleteRegions of Parashurama are spread from Parashurama-kunda in Dibrugarha (Asam) to Iraq. People who held Khura (Hoof) of Kamadhenu of Jamadagni to counter attack by Sahasrarjuna were called Khurada = Kurda. Their place on Iraq-Turkey border is called Taurus mountain.
Recently, a long under-sea wall has been found off Mangalore-Cohin coast estimated to be 8000 years old. Brahmanda purana etc call it undersea town of Parasurama whose era (Kalamba = Kollam) started after his death in 6177 BC. Between Gaya and Varanasi, there is a town Sasaram (Sahasra-Rama) which has an octagonal temple of Parashurama in a pond, now called Shershah-Maqabra. Place of his father Jamadagni is called Jamania. Places related to Parashurama are called Tangi in Orissa-Chhattisgarha and Parashurama is called Tangi-Baba (wielder of battle-axe).
British loyalists like R D Bhandarkar were worse than any missionary writer. He declared complete concept of Shiva-Rudra in Vedas as fallus worship by illiterate savages. Complete Purusha sukta was called a later manipulation by Bhagavata sect in 6th century AD. For such services in destruction of Vdas, he was honoured by British and an institute in his name in Pune continues anti-Vedic work. Till today, any illiterate person stating that Rishis ate beef only is made govt expert on Vedas.
Reference to 8000 year old undersea town on Mangalore coast whose photograps are in the following blog-
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2011/07/photos-8000-year-old-advanced.html
This bolg also briefly mentions web refs. given by me. Time of Parashuram is well known from Kollam (Kalamba) samvat started after death of Parashuram. Millenium years are not written. That is determined by 3 data-(1) Megasthenes tells that he (incarnation of Vishnu-Hercules) was 15 generations after Dionysus who had killed king Bahu of Surya-vamsha (Brahmanda purana etc) in April, 6777 BC-6451 years 3 months before attack by Alexander in July, 326 BC-rains had started when he fought with Porus (Puru-Chandravamshi king). (2) Parasuram was in 19th Treta (3) He was 9 generations before Rama in 24th Treta-in time of Mulaka called nari-kavacha.
An open letter to Mr Ninan
ReplyDeleteDear Sir,
I am not sure how one earth you managed such a translation. But this only shows that what poor knowledge you have and the paucity of ideas you show in your disgusting attempt to misuse the vedic scriptures for conversions. The very need for you to twist the Vedas actually show that they are superior. While i dont care to interpret the Bible to show that it talks about hinduism, as i do not need to convert anybody, as i do not have an inferiority complex.
Actually to translate any vedic passage due attention should be paid to Svaras and sandhis also, and not just words as it can change the meaning whenever these happen. I have learnt the Vedas in the traditional way and can vouchsafe that if any traditional vedic pandit read this translation, he would just junk it into the nearest dustbin. And moreover the Purusha Sukta talks of the concept of Yajna and it is not equal to sacrifice. The word Yajna comes from the word Yaj roughly meaning,to worship. Christianity never has this concept of Yajna as specified in the Vedas and so your translation is plain bull shit. And by no stretch of imagination the crucifixion can be considered yajna. As for your suggestion that Sanathana Dharma was built on top of St Thomas Sacrifice or "Yajna"
come on, you yourself know that this is the height of absurdity.
Even Max Muller, that idiot who never came to India and who caused havoc to India, dates the Vedas at 1500BC. So now where did St Thomas come at that time
Also in Christianity god is supposed to reside outside of creation and the line "Purusha eve idam sarvam", meaning that all this is the purusha, does not make sense in any Abrahamic faith for that matter. As for your mention of the Jewish Kabala, man i feel like rolling in laughter at your suggestion
I suggest that, leave all these kinds of disgusting attempts to plagiarise the Vedas to suit your own purposes and, Man!!! you are are too disgusting to say the least
Regards
Raja
Open letter to Mr Ninan contd..
ReplyDeleteAlso understand that as per the Purusha sukta,the Rig, samans and Yajuses where created out of the Yajna. Also there is the mention of the word "Chandas", meaning Vedic hymns with meters. Now where are all these in Christian scriptures. Also Christianity considers Hindus as idolaters and Yajnas as heathen/pagan. Where on earth did it suddenly attach on to these concepts?. This is perharps the technique of inculturization??. Also It is said that that the devas along with the Rishis and sadhyas performed this Yajna to help in creation. Now in Christianity god is supposed only to have created the world alone and did not take help of angels etc!!!. So this shows that this hymn deals more with secondary creation. i.e creation of animals and man, as the Devas, Rishis(here we can take it to be the prajapatis like Marichi,Pulastaya etc) have already been created.
The very begining of the hymn says the purusha had 1000 heads and 1000feet. This seems to be a grand description of the purusha. But Jesus had to die to relieve people of their sins. Where is the Purusha and where is Jesus??. This is the height of absurdity.
I can go and go on, but i think these points are more than sufficient to prove the absurdity of such translations
Regards
Raja
The ancient wall built in Konkan coast - I have written taht in June 2011 in my Tamil blog on tracing the land of Dravida on the west coast of India. The link is given here:-
ReplyDeletehttp://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2011/06/56-2.html
Madam,
ReplyDeleteEvery time I read an article where the Christians or Muslims denigrate Hinduism, I get reminded of our puranas.
I strongly feel that Jesus and Mohammmed are the Kaliyug avatars of Jaya and Vijaya. Are we not seeing how Sanatana Dharma is being sidelined the same way as it was done during Hiranyakashipu's time? In this context, "Kalki" avatar is a certainty :)
Your blog is a treasure and I learn something new each time I visit. Thanks for your work.
Bhagirathi
Where is VHP, Tambram or BJP when such loose canon gets published.Even a tiny mention on other religions is made a mountain by parties like Cong.
ReplyDeleteBut a complete denigration of Hinduism is completely ignored. I actually heard that St Thomas Mount known as Paringimalai is actually named after Maharishi Bhrigu and not Thomas.Of course it was completely taken over by Christians later.
Madam,
ReplyDeleteExcellent article.Prof Ninan reads this with an open mind , he would profusely apologize to the Hindus and desist from making any such crude attempt in future.Let him understand the word Sanathana and not try to limit Hinduism to just 2000 years.
I would alos like to request you for a copy of Nakshatra Suktham Vykanam , if you can share with me.
Thank you for once again.I would pray to Sriman Narayanan to provide Aayush, Aarogyam and Aiswaryam to continue the good work.
Regards,
Srikanth
Singapore
Your article is full of scholarly information. But I doubt, if half-wits like Ninan and his followers will be able to bear the intensity of it. I am shocked to see how people Ninan can shamelessly lie and distort Vedic knowledge to their fancy.
ReplyDeleteVedas are pre Harappan literature, which places it beyond 3000 BCE. If Ninan cannot concede such an antiquity, he should at least know that the most pessimistic dating of Vedas (and its hymns including Purusha Suktha) done by the AIT schools is 800 BCE and that is still 800 years older than Jesus or Thomas!
Dear Ms. Saranathan,
ReplyDeleteThank you for the exhaustive article!
Any portents/ omens to be read from the report of meteor showers in rural Maharashtra ( near Vidarbha)?
@seadog 4227
ReplyDeleteCan you send me the details (or the link )of the meteor shower like when it happened, the direction etc.?
Dear Mr Jijith,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment.
I request you to read my comments in this link in a blog on anthropology. You would like it and it would give you some idea into developing your thoughts on such things.
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.in/2012/05/suppressed-by-scholars-twin-ancient.html
Dear Ms. Saranathan,
ReplyDeleteThe meteor shower links are below: http://www.sakaaltimes.com/20120526/5092083599575234508.htm
(2) http://www.portal.gsi.gov.in/gsiImages/information/katol_meteorite_shower.pdf
(3)http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifting-gears/121140-meteorite-shower-central-india-around-nagpur.html
Best wishes!!
@ seadog
ReplyDeleteThanks for the links.
I will give you some scientific connections and also astrological meaning for this event.
Scientifically that meteor shower is an expected one in the month of May coming form the direction of Aquarius. It is the result of earth ramming through the path of Hally's comet. The particles left by the tail / trail of Hally's comet shower as meteors when the earth passes through them. It happens every year around the Full moon of April- May (Chitra pournami). This year also a maximum fall happened around that time. The trace elements continued to shower after that too. On June 22nd, being a dark night (Sukla pratipat), the shower has been easily seen. The location of fall of this shower is the tropical latitude of Northern hemisphere. Vidharbha falling close to that naturally experienced that shower. The time of shower also confirms that this this regular meteor shower coming from Eta Aquarids - the rising lagna at the time of shower at Vidharbha was 25 degrees Aquarius. For details on this phenomenon refer these sites:
http://stardate.org/nightsky/meteors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eta_Aquariids
Now coming to the astrological pointers, why Vidharbha and not other regions of the tropic of cancer ? Why this year and not in previous years?
The reason is that there is a combination of planets brewing up these days indicating natural calamities. In an earlier post (Indonesian earthquake), I have indicated the date on Full moon (and around that time) on June 4th.
As far as Indian places are concerned, places coming under Vishaka, Anuradha and Jyeshta are vulnerable (Scorpio is the impacted zone in this planetary combination). Vishaka is the star of Vidharbha, Anuradha is the star of Uttar Pradesh (Gangetic plain or regions where the Ganges flow through) and Jyeshta is the star of Panchaala (Punjab or regions drained by the Indus and its tributaries). These regions come under the impact of the natural calamities indicated by the planetary combination that I explained in that post. The impact period continues until December.
The shower coming on a no moon day or close to that is categorized as Kapaala Ketu according to traditional astrological texts. It indicates suffering for mankind from hunger, death, drought and disease.
The shower appearing from Aquarius indicates troubles to the people and rulers of North western regions of India such as Kashmir North west Pakisthan, Afghanisthan, Caucasus and Ceylon (Srilanka).
Globally, on the day of Super moon (chitra paurnami) when this shower was detected, Italy experienced an earthquake. The global regions coming under impact zone for the rest of the period until December, according to astrology are Mediterranean countries, Israel, Spain, Syria,Algeria, Bavaria, Morocco, Norway, Hungary, Arabia, west coast of the two Americas.
Other sites on Eta Aquarid meteor shower:-
ReplyDeletehttp://www.spaceweather.com/meteors/etaaquarids/etaaquarids.html
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/watchtheskies/aquarids_2012.html
It seems that the actual timing is 23rd early morning 2 am to 2-30 am. That means it was sukla Dwithiya. Kapaala Ketu holds good for that day.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your feedback!
ReplyDeleteAs my pseudonym indicates, I am a seafarer ( Mrigashira nakshatra, Mithuna Rashi) with a current sensitivity to these events.
I am a regular reader of your blog. I came across this Museum of Indian History started in India with a link to this blog. I live in the US and am writing this comment as I leave Uzbekistan on my travels, the pride with which they talk about Amir Temur conquering India is frankly irritating. Check out the picture on this blog http://hindu-tolerance.blogspot.com/
ReplyDeleteI believe there is a contribution to the museum that can be made as well.
Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI have already given the link to this site run by Francois Gautier in the top left section of this blog. Please click "The Hindu past" in the top left to read all the articles on Islamic onslaught on Hindus and the painful past of India in the hands of the invaders.
Mam,
ReplyDeletethe following book came to your notice?? or any such similar.
1. The Christ Conspiracy:
The Greatest Story Ever Sold
by Acharya S/D.M. Murdock,
Member, American School of Classical Studies, Athens
Scholar of Archaeology, History, Mythology and Languages
2. i want to know if you studied any possible horoscope of christ by using date and place that we all know using software?
3. and with regards to the authenticity of 9/11 and the steps taken by the war-dependent economy countries afterwards, i used to say the universe itself is a leelavinodam/script of God making myself a laughing stock, but it seems the script (9/11+aftermaths) of my fellow humans is also so complex and fantastic once understood.
Sincerely,
NVS.
@ Surya,
ReplyDelete(1) No I have not read those books.
(2) No I have not analysed the horoscope of Jesus Chrisht, I think BV Raman had done that. Let me read that sometime.
(3)Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I came across the Ninan's trash around four years back when I was browsing for something. I was initially shocked and thought to myself:- "Can people write such stories?". Though I know it was sheer falsehood, there was a small fear in me:- "Do we have enough evidence to disprove it?". I sent the link to Sri Nandhanandhana Dasa (Mr.Stephen Knapp) and asked him about it. He just ridiculed the stupid claims and told me about the Heliodorus column, which you had mentioned. Besides there are also so many contrary statements in this book (not only in the Purusha Suktham). A few which I found contrary:-
ReplyDelete1. While mentioning Rama and Krishna, he says they are mere mythical figures in one chapter. And while speaking about the million-dollar fraudulent theory, the Aryan-Dravidian theory, he says the Ramayana and Mahabharata wars are examples of Aryan-Dravidian conflicts and also assigns dates to them! I wonder how then Rama and Krishna are myths!
Ninan further compares two more puranic incidents to Aryan invasion:-
The killing of the Kshatriyas by Parasurama and the Vamana-Mahabali incident.
Parasurama killed 21 generations of Kshatriyas (not Sudras, who are Dravidians in the terminology of Christain-Dravidians). In their concept, Brahmins, Kshatriyas and Vaisyas were the invading Aryans who suppressed the Dravidian Sudras! In that case, why does Ninan bother so much about Parasurama killing Kshatriyas?? After all, it was a fight between Aryans alone! Similar was the case in the Vamana-Mahabali incident. Both were Aryans. Moreover, Mahabali was not murdered in gruesome manner as the Dravidian stalwarts describe mythical Aryan-Dravidian war. I wonder how Ninan, being a Keralite who might be very well knowing the legends about Onam can write such things. Money, nothing else!!
2. He says the Purusha Suktham says that the Purusha sacrificed Himself to create this Universe. I am not completely aware of how the real Purusha Suktham symbolises this. But pretty sure that Jesus was not the Purusha. If he was, why did he 'sacrifice himself' when the Universe was already created and functioning???
3. Seems Narayana means 'Son of Man'. No idea which language he is speaking about. As per the book 'Hindu Gods and Goddesses' by Swami Harshananda of the Ramakrishna Math, Narayana means' one who has made the causal waters as the abode' and 'one who has entered into everything', which makes perfect sense. I don't really understand:- Jesus is 'Son of God' at the same time 'Son of Man'. Are man and God equal?
This only reminds me of a similar trash which I read in another fraud Sadhu Chellappa's website:- He says the verse "Shanthakaram bhujagasayanam" means "For God so loved the Earth that he gave his only begotten son...." (John 3:16) and also that this was translated by a professor from Benares Hindu University. Anybody with 0.0001% knowledge of Sanskrit can explain that the word 'sayanam' means reclining. Where does this describes how many sons God begot, how he begot or from whom he begot? Ultimate crap to deceive the gullible, illiterate Hindus! Furthermore, he said that this verse is from the Rig Veda. I couldn't control my laughter, since it is from the Vishnu Sahasranama.
One is to understand that the Christians will go to any extent, blabber anything, write any falsehood to convert Hindus. As the Pope shamelessly said:- "In the first millenium we targeted Europe, in the second we harvested souls in the Americas and Africa, now in third Asia".
These people should be brought before justice (if there is something called 'justice').
St thomas was a pirate in priest clothing, he NEVER CAME TO SOUTH INDIA.
ReplyDeleteTHE POPE himself denies this. lol
The stupid converts remain in a status of stupidity to support their faith which was imposed onto them by christian talibans.
The original text of Purusha Suktam was written in Sanskrit the most ancient language of the universe. Can any true Christian prove that the Bible or the Old Testaments or the New testaments were ever written in that language? Normally a true Christian well versed in the Holy Texts of Christianity would ever venture to claim the most sacred texts of Hinduism as their own. It is only the converted Indian Christians with zero knowledge of Christian texts would venture into such cheap publicity among the illiterate Dalits and other OBCs by totally circumventing
ReplyDeletetruth and propagate Christianity for the sake of huge funds they get to convert Hindus. As a matter of fact, the current Pope of Vatican has clandestinely indicated that their prime target is to convert India into a Christian nation by converting Hindus as Christians and allowing them to practice all the rites they were observing as Hindus. Perhaps this is one ploy of the people indulging in forced conversions to convince the novices and make them the easy victims. Persons like Ninan and Chellappa are to be detested and ignored.
Well.. There is much data being speculated here. Once thing I noticed in the entire commentary is the use of an argument based on the literal meaning of the Ancient Vedic Scriptures.
ReplyDeleteWhile I hold dear to my heart that every bit of this ancient text was revealed to the Ancients, I do not believe that they are to be interpreted literally. The offer great allegorical, moral, and eschatological meaning to the entire cosmos. I am a Christian but I do not agree with the understanding of Mr. Ninan. Considering the Ancient Hebrew Scriptures (cf. Dead Sea Scrolls), you will see several stories centering - all of them centering on Sacrifice and the scriptures close by the ultimate Sacrifice of Christ. While looking closely at the pattern of the ancient writings along with the revelations to the catholic mystics, you will get a complete picture from the events starting with the Creation of Angeles (
Devas), Archangels (Agni, Indira, varura) their roles and to Koka and Vikoka (cf. Gog and Magog) who comes at the end of Kali yuga to be destroyed by Kalki. Read Revelation Chapter 12 to find out what happened in Heaven before the visible creation began and compare that with the role of Indira or take for example the 7 Chiranjeevis and compare that to the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit. If someone has the courage to compare the 9 major avatharas and yugas with the Salvation history in the old Jewish books leading to the New Testament of Christ, you will see all stories of the Mahapurana unveiled in front of your eyes. You may also compare the timings of the Yugas with the Ages of the Bible. With so much semblances with the Trinitarian form and the theology of the Crucified one which I cannot but agree with the purusha sukta being the prophetical work on the great Sacrifice of Christ. Before God executed His Will, Creation was an intention in His Heart. He saw the first man and the last man to be born and he saw all the evil that man would commit. So, in Eternity when God intended the Creation, he saw the Sacrifice, he saw the price to be paid to maintain his own equilibrium of Justice and Punishment. the Just punishment was accepted by the Logo or Word or then the Word of the Father who eventually incarnated in the middle of time. The only way to understand the reason for the Sacrifice is 1) Love and 2) Justification which leads to Salvation. You cannot but say that the lives of the Catholic saints are all fabricated. Take courage to read the works of Luisa Piccarretta, Maria Valtora, Gabrielle Bossis a few mystics from this century and see what they have to say about Christianity. With Christ all revelations has ended but the Spirit of God - paramathma is now guiding Manu through a direct relationship. Not sure if you knew that Christ is the bridge groom of all souls and the depiction of Krishna with several wife's point to the fact that we are all called to be the brides of this eternal bridegroom. I am not sure if you all know that Wisdom is represented in the bible as "She" and I encourage you to read Proverbs Chapter 8. The idea of Lakshmi and the Wealth is nothing but the Eternal coins of Wisdom.
Take a submarine to look at the depth of the ocean of vedas after abandoning the canoe which only shows you the monotonous waves and a few ships going by made by man. But under the ocean, you will see pearls, and beautiful Konch deep down there.
Jesus, called the Lamb of God in the bible and even seen as a Lamb being slain in Heaven was never worshipped as a Lamb, but as a Man-God who is like you in everything except Sin.
We should move on the Spiritual meaning of Vedas and open our faith to reasoning.
There is much more to say, but when God Created Time, he did not leave the rewinding key in there =)
God Bless.
Br. Joseph Mary.
Another Ninan in the name of Br Joseph Mary!
ReplyDeleteI don't know whether you knew Christianity better, but I certainly know Hinduism better and see all your words an attempt of a person suffering from inferiority complex about the religion he follows and trying to say, 'mine is also like yours' - whereas in reality none of comparisons you made are what Hinduism tells. Be where you are and don't trespass.
Dear Br. Joseph Mary,
ReplyDeleteSome points from my side. Did you know that the history of Jesus is missing from age 12 to 30 and it is widely believed that he took a pilgrimage to India and learned Vedas and Sanatana Dharma to enlighten himself. He then went back to his land to share this enlightenment but the people over there were simple folks like fisherman, farmers etc. and Jesus had to simplify highly evolved knowledge of Vedas and present it in a way that suited that land and time. There is every chance for lot of inspirations from Bharat to other regions, religions and cultures.
Even going by the account of time, you do know that earth was not created 6000 years ago right?;)
There is nothing wrong in what you worship but there is everything wrong in professing this is the only true form of worship. You are the daughter of this land and we belong to a culture where we believe "truth is one but the wise call it with many names".
Unfortunate that our converted folks are stuck in the narrow tunnel vision and cannot see beyond their choosen path.
Religion defines a person to a certain extent but it is the culture which plays a major role. Should we loose this to the greed of the Vatican and be puppets and monotonous? Come out of the shell and embrace universality and diversity of this magnificent land Bharat and take pride that other religions have found inspirations from here. If possible, go to the source of knowledge and expand your world view than be stuck with an imitation and a worldview alien to this land. With Love.
Jai Shree Ram.
Dear Br. Joseph Mary,
ReplyDeleteSome famous quotes about our bhumi Bharat by famous thinkers history has known and adores.
"Anything that can ever be done either by man or God has been done in this land"
--Mark Twain
“I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis, etc. It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe.”
--Voltaire
"Whenever I have read any part of the Vedas, I have felt that some unearthly and unknown light illuminated me. In the great teaching of the Vedas, there is no touch of sectarianism. It is of all ages, climbs, and nationalities and is the royal road for the attainment of the Great Knowledge. When I read it, I feel that I am under the spangled heavens of a summer night."
--Henry David Theoreau
"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made."
--Albert Einstein
“Never before had China seen a religion so rich in imagery, so beautiful and captivating in ritualism and so bold in cosmological and metaphysical speculations. Like a poor beggar suddenly halting before a magnificent storehouse of precious stones of dazzling brilliancy and splendor, China was overwhelmed, baffled and overjoyed. She begged and borrowed freely from this munificent giver. The first borrowings were chiefly from the religious life of India, in which China's indebtedness to India can never be fully told.”
-- Hu Shih
"In the great books of India, an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence, which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the questions that exercise us."
--Ralph Emerson
"India was the motherland of our race, and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages: she was the mother of our philosophy; mother, through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics; mother, through the Buddha, of the ideals embodied in Christianity; mother, through the village community, of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all".
--Will Durant
Finally a quote for you Br. Joseph from the greatest thinker and philosopher and famous son of our bhumi Bharat.
"Hindu religion does not consist in struggles and attempts to believe a certain doctrine or dogma, but in realizing not in believing, but in being and becoming.”
-- Swami Vivekananda
Such greatness of our bhumi as recognized by history's famous thinkers was all possible only because of Sanatana Dharma which helps all of us evolve as a being and guides us to be much more than what we presently are.
It was only natural that other regions, religions and cultures have been inspired from Sanatana Dharma and has been graciously acknowledged by famous foreign philosophers and thinkers.
Jai Shree Ram.
Well said Mr Sri Rama.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mam.
ReplyDeleteIs there no way - I mean legal - to stop people like Ninan from distorting our religion?
ReplyDeleteHi ,
ReplyDeleteI read your post. I learnt many things. I have a question. In Bhagavad Gita 9:16 ,the God of Bhagavad Gita says "I am the sacrifice". What is ur opinion on this. The same Bhagavad Gita says the sacrifice is for deliverance and the food offered in sacrifice is eaten by saints to free them from sin.
Which God has sacrificed for removing sins of the world?. . Lord Krishna didn't sacrifice his life in his avatar. What is ur opinion on this.
@ Nadhiya,
ReplyDeleteSacrifice is not the right translation in the passages you have referred. Yajna doesn't mean sacrificing as you think. Browse this blog for Yajna and what it means. May be you can start with the article here where I have explained what is yajna https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2008/02/pithru-yajna-yajna-is-to-restore.html
Madam,
ReplyDeleteAccording to the above said article, if yajna is the divine act done by the doer for ultimate liberation,then according to Bhagavad Gita if God says "I am the sacrifice" and in next verse he says. "I am the master of sacrifices" then if you apply your definition ,Does God need liberation?Can you clarify this to me. Secondly, in rig Veda 1:163:12-13, we read that a steed for prepared for sacrifice. This looks like a real animal slaughter to me, what is your opinion.? Thirdly, prajapathi is the primeval supreme God and prajapathi is described having two aspects prakirti and purusha, this is the saying of Mahatma Gandhiji. Purusha is the personified form of prajapathi. Purusha is depicted showing 1000 hands which represents the all knowing,all pervading nature of purusha. Hinduism is a philosophical religion and I believe the main points are detailed in idiomatic form. For example, if Shiva is depicted having three eyes, this represents he knows all tenses( past,present and future) and if Murugan is depicted as two wives, the real meaning is Kriya and Iccha Shakthi. For every story and idioms there are meaningful explanation behind it.
.
Not only is Bhagavad Gita, even in Vishnu sahasranama, 440th sloga depicts and praises Vishnu as Great sacrifice and also in 680th sloka. In 681, he is praised as the great sacrifice performer.In 683 ,he is called great offering. This shows us that God is sacrifice. In Bhagavad Gita chapter 3, it says that yajna is needed to remove sins and food offered in the yajna should be eaten by saints to purify them. If you say that birthday of Jesus coincides with Mithra's birthday and if you think it is copied from ancient Persians. Then the history should be like Mithra should have been put to death on cross and Jesus should have been a mythological figure. But the real condition is vice versa. in bible during birth of Jesus wise men from East came to worship the Messiah. How could they have known that.? At that time many were expecting the birth of savior and by following the star they finally found it. Every ancient Persian, Roman gods are mythological figures. But Jesus is a historical figure who lived, died as sacrifice and ressurrected..
ReplyDeleteNadhiya. What did you understand from that article about yajna? Your comments show 'nothing'. If you understand what is yajna from that article, you wont ask the questions you have raised, as you would have got answers once you understand what is yajna. So don't waste your time and my time here.
ReplyDeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteI have read the article and the definition of yajna given by me was the exact words used by you in the article. Ok, I don't need any further explanation from you as I don't want to waste your time.
Nadhiya. What is the exact word you had taken from my article? Its 'liberation'. What is liberation? How is it achieved through yajna? You didn't read all that, nor you cared to know what is yajna ( or you didnt understand) that I explained in many ways. Better be content with your Jesus and his sacrifice and dont bother about krishna or Bhagavad gita. Ok?
DeleteMam
ReplyDeleteAny information about the end of Kaliyuga or the tenth avatar.
// Any information about the end of Kaliyuga or the tenth avatar.//
ReplyDeleteFor this we must first have a clarity about what is Yuga.
There is Catur Maha Yuga running into lakhs of years used for measuring Time in the scheme of Creator Brahma and there is another calculation of Yuga measured by Dharma.
When Adharma reaches 3/4th and Dharma only 1/4th, Kali Yuga will be running as per this measure of Yuga.
Adharma: Dharma = 3:1 in this period.
In this kind of dharmic measures, Rama was born when the ratio was 1:3; Krishna was born when it was 2:2; When it became 3:1 Kali Yuga started.
As such this period started only when the Nanda dynasty came to power as per Srimad Bhagavatam. This corresponds to 575 BCE.
This period of Kali dharma will come to an end when the ratio of Adharma and Dharma reverses to 1:3. That time will be marked by the 10th avatar, kalki.
There is no fixed time period of when this will come.
To know the details, suggest reading my book "Mahabharata 3136 BCE" wherein the 3rd chapter is completely devoted to describing the issues around Yuga and resolving them. Ebook is free for kindle subscribers https://www.amazon.in/dp/B09LS1WZ4X
For print copy, write to me to jayasreebooks@gmail.com
Or check these articles in my blogspot:
https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2021/03/sandhya-sandhyamsa-and-entry-of-kali-in.html
https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2021/03/arrival-of-indian-monsoon-signaled.html