Mr Nilesh Oak claims to have dated an ancient update of Surya Siddhanta based on a verse from Surya Siddhanta. Following account taken from my book Myth of 'The Epoch of Arundhati' of Nilesh Nilkanth Oak establishes why he is wrong in his claim.
*****
Kali Yuga date is Siddhanta based and with the 3rd
Shaka Era in progress now, time computation is well laid out to be accurate to
seconds. It involves only Gaṇita or mathematics and identifies time through
mathematical calculation. To cite an
example an inscription found at Parthivasekara puram in Kanyakumari
district about a grant given to a Vedic learning centre records the date in
number of days such as “fourteen hundred thousand forty nine thousand and
eighty seventh day having expired after the beginning of kali Yuga”[1] This points
out to the 9th century CE when deducted from the traditional date of
Kali Yuga. Cross-referentially the king in whose name this has been issued is also
found to belong to the 9th century. The kind of computation in
number of days found in this inscription is a special feature of Jyothisha
Siddhantas.
The Siddhanta gives theoretical exposition of the
rules and concepts of different features of astronomy and time computation. The
time period of the Siddhanta is given only mathematically by calculating from
the beginning of the Kalpa, the Maha Yuga or the Yuga at the time of
composition of the Siddhanta. Without knowing this basic lakshana of
Siddhanta, Nilesh Oak has attempted to ‘date an ‘update’ of Surya Siddhanta in
an article[2]
and a video[3]
recently. This is being highlighted here to show the lacuna in his
understanding of the fundamentals in arriving at a date.
Picking out a verse in Surya Siddhanta that says
that when seen from a place situated at no-latitude (niraksha desa samsthana)
i.e. at equator, the pole star (Dhruva tara) is at the horizon,[4]
Nilesh Oak has gone on to date the Surya Siddhanta (according to him, an update
among many updates of Surya Siddhanta). Thinking that the verse refers to
visual sighting of pole stars at the two ends (north and south) he ran his
simulator to locate the time when pole stars were visibly present at the two
horizons (north and south) and arrived at a date 12,000 BCE!
No Siddhanta gives a hint like this to find out the
time of its composition nor does it give such a hint to derive any other date.
Siddhanta being Gaṇita (mathematics), it only talks about calculations for
deriving any time period.
The same idea of Surya Siddhanta used by Nilesh Oak
to “date” Surya Siddhanta is also found in Siddhanta Shiromani by Bhaskara II,
that “a man situated on the equator sees both the north and south poles
touching (the north and south points of) the horizon.”[5]
Would Nilesh Oak accept that Bhaskara II also lived in 12,000 BCE?
There need not be a star present at the point, but
the location is Dhruva, a fixed point. The Siddhantas mention this as a
universal statement. The same idea can be seen in modern astronomy in the
context of Declination. The Wikipedia article on Declination gives the same
idea.[6] Can
it be used for deciding the date of writing the article?
From another verse in Surya Siddhanta[7]
Nilesh Oak has claimed to have deduced the obliquity at the time of sighting
the pole stars at the horizons, using it as an additional hint to substantiate
the date he got from the simulator. That verse tells about the maximum extent
of one fifteenth part of the circumference of the earth, i.e. 24˚that the Sun
goes on either side of the equator (solstices). That is a standard statement
and the calculation of rising periods, ascensional differences and other
details are given for that limit. Bhaskara II mentions this in his book besides
giving methods to derive the same for latitudes less than 24˚N.[8] By
Nilesh Oak’s claims, Siddhanta Shiromani of Bhaskara II can also be traced to
12,000 BCE by interpreting that the axial tilt was 24˚ when Bhaskara II wrote
his Siddhanta.
This ‘research’ of Nilesh Oak exposes how he picks
out his evidences or Basic sentences without recourse to the admissibility of
them from the text. His first step is to interpret a verse in the way he thinks
is right, without any background knowledge of the fundamentals. The next step
is to check it in the simulator. Then the research is done. The same pattern
laid already in the discovery of the “Epoch of Arundhati” is replicated in
other ‘researches’.
The Surya Siddhanta dating ‘research’ is highlighted
here to show how Nilesh Oak is woefully lacking in fundamentals. Be it the
tradition of Arundhati or methodology of Popper or Patanjali or nimitta of
Samhita or Siddhanta to understand the calculation of time, Nilesh Oak can be
seen looking through a limited ‘window’ to claim success.
******
Another issue with his SS article:
In the India Facts article by Mr Oak on Surya Siddhanta
( http://indiafacts.org/ancient-updates-to-surya-siddhanta/) he has written that "that the Earth’s obliquity was indeed 24 degree in the year 2900 BCE and 12000 BCE!" That means the earth reached 24 degree tilt in 2900 BCE and before that in 12k BCE. Means the earth had oscillated within a span of 9000 years! His software shows that span only and not 26K or 41K span. Vedic wisdom says that the span was 7200 years. The difference was due to precession calibrated from the present value in the softwares. The rate of precession is not constant at all times. That is why our seers had mentioned in terms of time and degrees. This limited precession is explained in my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi6xc8HPfR4&t=2448s
Another issue with his SS article:
In the India Facts article by Mr Oak on Surya Siddhanta
( http://indiafacts.org/ancient-updates-to-surya-siddhanta/) he has written that "that the Earth’s obliquity was indeed 24 degree in the year 2900 BCE and 12000 BCE!" That means the earth reached 24 degree tilt in 2900 BCE and before that in 12k BCE. Means the earth had oscillated within a span of 9000 years! His software shows that span only and not 26K or 41K span. Vedic wisdom says that the span was 7200 years. The difference was due to precession calibrated from the present value in the softwares. The rate of precession is not constant at all times. That is why our seers had mentioned in terms of time and degrees. This limited precession is explained in my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi6xc8HPfR4&t=2448s
[1]
Travancore Archaeological
Series, Volume I, page 30.
[2]
“Ancient Updates to Surya
Siddhanta”, Nilesh N Oak and Rupa Bhatty, 19-03-2019 http://indiafacts.org/ancient-updates-to-surya-siddhanta/
[4]
Surya Siddhanta 12- 43 &44
[5]
Siddhanta Shiromani. 3-48,
Translation by Pundit Bapu Deva Sastri.
[7]
Surya Siddhanta 12-68
[8]
Siddhanta Shiromani. 9-19
& 20
14 comments:
G. Krishian
Every writer says that Dhruva is the 'pole star' altough the Vishnu Purana clearly says that Dhruva will be in its special position for the duration for the present Kalpa. Furthermore Dhruva is not a mathematical point. It is a bright visible star in the Sky. Its unique position makes it a reference star for the first point of Mesha. Dhruva is in a vimana together with his mother. They will be there for the whole Kalpa. The Puranas are store houses of observational astronomy. My preliminary intention is to jolt the modern researches complacency that Dhruva is the pole star. It does not tally with the Puranas. It is a reference star for the first point of the Rasi Cakra.
The truth about Dhruva cannot be unraveled without a recourse to the Puranas and Vedas.
G. Krishian
Vishnu's blessing to Dhruva
(Astronomical description of the position attained by Dhruva)
A station shall be assigned to thee, Dhruva, above the three worlds ; one in which thou shalt sustain the stars and the planets; a station above those of the Sun, the Moon, Mars, the son of Soma (Mercury), Venus, the son of Súrya (Saturn), and all the other constellations; above the regions of the seven Rishis, and the divinities who traverse the atmosphere. Some celestial beings endure for four ages; some for the reign of a Manu: to thee shall be granted the duration of a Kalpa. Thy mother Suníti, in the orb of a bright star, shall abide near thee for a similar term; and all those who, with minds attentive, shall glorify thee at dawn or at eventide, shall acquire exceeding religious merit.
According to the above description given in the Vishnu Purana,
1) Dhruva is a celetial being (star )
2) Dhruva will be in its special position for the duration of a Kalpa
3) His mother Suniti is also a bright star and will be with Dhruva (binary star?)
4) Dhruva can seen at dawn or in the evening.
It is very clear that Dhruva is not the pole star.
In this post, I am only concerned with showing that Dhruva cannot be the pole star
or a mathematical point basing on the astronomical details given in the Vishnu Purana.
In my next post, I will be giving some interesting astronomical descriptions in the
Puranas that can help to locate Dhruva in the Cgynus or 'Swan' constellation.
The Puranas are a store house of observational astronomy. The creativity and
astronomical knowledge of the Puranas are breath taking. The best book to unlock the
observational astronomy of the Puranas is 'A new way to see the night sky' by H.A. Rey
Mr G. Krishnan.
Dhruva is Polaris that is currently around the NCP.
Please read my blog and the watch the video embedded there to know the location of Dhruva, the son of Uttanapada, and his mother Suniti.
https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2019/12/identifying-dhruva-son-of-uttanapada-in.html
Dhruva is not in Cygnus - you know why that concept is wrong when you watch my video.
Jayasree Saranathan Ph.D
I am new to your blog and have not watched that video
However I will explore and watch it soon. Thank you.
I am a Malaysian Indian and a retired mathematics teacher.
For more than 30 years I have been reading and researching
on the vedas, upanishads, puranas, Indian Mathematics (Aryabhatta),
vedic astrology, vedic astronomy (Suryasiddhanta) and observational astronomy.
In 1972 I came by the book 'A new way to see the night sky'I began to have a
new perspective of the vedas and the puranas. The puranas and vedas are talking
about things that can be seen and the subtle fields that are associated with them.
Many verses of the vedas are talking about the Sun, the ecliptic and the subtle
Rasi Cakra associated with it.I also like to read about Relativity, Quantum Physics
and String Theory. I realised that the vedas, upanishads and puranas have already
boldly put forth these ideas.
I am charged with a sense of bringing out the brilliance of our selfless ancestors.
However I am alone here in Malaysia with my quest. Most people are either ignorant
or indifferent to our rich heritage. I think the same is true of modern India.
I came across your blog by accident. When I read your profile I was impressed by
your commitment to bring out the real brilliance of our sages.
As for the identification of Dhruva, the main question is whether Polaris fits the description given in the vedas and the puranas. Dhruva occupies a more important
position than NCP. The position of Dhruva has a galactic significance. Cgynus is seen
in the background of Makara. Makara is a crocodile or whale. Dhruva is said to be at
the tail end of sisumara (dolphin/whale).
What makes researches hold the view that Dhruva is a pole star is that the
constellations, Sun and the planets are said to be revolving around Dhruva.
However the Tamil reference that I have clearly states that Dhruva is also
going around the Sun, planets and constellations.
Who is correct is not important. The true brilliance of our sages should be
brought out.
By the way, I am very new to posting in blogs. In fact yours is my very first.
I was trying to copy paste my reference in Tamil but unsuccessful. I have to
explore further.
G. Krishian
Reference for the Sun and Planets going around Dhruva and vice-versa.
Vishnu Purana
Chapter IX - Planetary system, under the type of the Sisumara, or porpoise
THE form of the mighty Hari which is present in heaven, consisting of the constellations, is that of a porpoise, with Dhruva situated in the tail. As Dhruva revolves, it causes the moon, sun, and stars to turn round also; and the lunar asterisms follow in its circular path; for all the celestial luminaries are in fact bound to the polar-star by aerial cords. The porpoise-like figure of the celestial sphere is upheld by Nārāyaṇa, who himself, in planetary radiance, is seated in its heart; whilst the son of Uttanāpāda, Dhruva, in consequence of his adoration of the lord of the world, shines in the tail of the stellar porpoise[1]. The upholder of the porpoise-shaped sphere is the sovereign of all, Janārddana. This sphere is the supporter of Dhruva; and by Dhruva the sun is upstayed. Upon the sun depends this world, with its gods, demons, and men. In what manner the world depends upon the sun, be attentive, and you shall hear.
G Krishian
Jayasree Saranathan Ph.D
I just watched your video. Thanks.
You are a very bold researcher thrusting the revelations
of our sages more than the modern astronomers. Our Indian
astronomers have not sought the vedas, puranas and suryasiddhanta
with humility and hence in their arrogance are talking in the same lingo
as the western astronomers. They are talking about precession of the equinox,
precessional cycle of about 26 000 years and a precession rate of 50.27"
per annum.
Our sages talked about the sapta rishi cycles. At the beginning of the Kali Yuga
in 3012 BC, the vernal equinox was in Mesha Adhi, the winter solstice was in
Makara Adhi. From Mesha Adhi, the equinox moved to 27 deg Mesha in a period of
1800 saura years that is 1302 AD. Then in another 1800 years it reversed its
direction came back to Mesha Adhi in 498 AD. From Mesha Adhi it will move to
27 deg Menam in 1800 saura years that is 2298 AD. Then in another 1800 saura
years it will be back in Mesha Adhi in 4 098 AD. The duration of the
sapta rishi cycle is 7200 saura years. Our sages are talking about a to and fro
or oscillating movement of the equinoxes and solstices. This movement causes a
displacement of the current equinoxes and solstices from the original positions
during the beginning of Kali Yuga. These displacements are called ayanamsa with
an annual rate of 54".
I have been familiar with the above information for at least 20 years. This is
the very basis of my research. I have been following the works of many modern
Indian researches. None of them have taken the pains to uncover the brilliant
empirical knowledge of our sages and are mere parroting western knowledge
systems. Just as when I was thinking that our ancient heritage was a lost cause,
I took time to watch the video that you recommended and happy to see that a person
of repute is also aware and believes in the deep knowledge of our ancients.
As for Dhruva, it cannot be a star from Cygnus when we focus on the equinox.
However, when we consider the ancient tradition of Makara Jyothi and focus
on the winter solstice, then Dhruva can be a star in Cygnus.More about this later.
G. Krishian
Surya Puranam
By Rishabanandhar
(Page 30)
My highest respect to Rishabanandhar.
I am loosely translating the tamil work as follows:
A laksa yojana from the earth is Surya Mandalam.
A laksa yojana from it is the Chandra Mandalam.
After the Chandra Mandalam is the Nakshatra Mandalam,
Mercury Mandalam, Venus Mandalam, Mars Mandalam,
Jupiter Mandalam, Saturn Mandalam and Dhruva Mandalam.
All these are graha mandalams.
My premise is that the vedas and puranas are dealing with
the Sun, the ecliptic, the Rasi Cakra associated with the ecliptic
and the constellations of observational astronomy which
serve as markers for the rasis.
My matching of the above verses of the Surya Purana
to the Rasi Cakra is as follows:
In this context, yojana is a circular measure and the earth
is the celestial ecliptic.
The Surya Mandalam is Simham
The Chandra Mandalam is Kakadakam
The Nakshatra Mandalam is the band of the Milky Way in Mithunam.
Mercury Mandalam is Mithunam.
Venus Mandalam is Rishibam.
Mars Mandalam is Mesham.
Jupiter Mandalam is Menam.
Saturn Mandalam is Kumbham.
As Dhruva Madalam is also graha mandalam, it is Makaram.
I read the vedas, upanishads and puranas with utmost humility.
The works of our sages are at the very fringes of our intellect.
As such I do not hold any rigid views. My views are tentative.
G. Krishian
Allowing for some minor variations in the translations of the Vishnu Purana
and Surya Purana, Dhruva together with the Sun and its planets have diurnal
motion. However Dhruva and the Rasi Cakra don't have proper motion. The Sun
and its planets have both diurnal and proper motion.
The NCP, centre of earth and the SCP don't have diurnal motion. These are
the three nabhis or navels of the ecliptic or Rasi Cakra. The NCP / Polaris
has 'proper motion' around the ecliptic poles. The rate of precession of
NCP / Polaris is 50.27" per annum. Western astronomers think that NCP and SCP
will precess to complete a circle in (360 x 60 x 60) / 50.27 years that is
25 780 years.
When we take the Sapta Rishi cycles, the
rate of ayanamsa is (108 x 60 x 60) / 7200 that is 54" per annum.
Why is there a difference? Are our ancient sages and modern astronomers
measuring the same quantity? This mystery can only be unlocked with the
true identity of Dhruva who was given a supreme position by Maha Vishnu.
The Surya Siddhanta sanskrit verse is:
मेरोरुभयतो मध्ये ध्रुवतारे नभ:स्थिते।
निरक्षदेशसंस्थानामुभये क्षितिजाश्रिये॥१२:४३॥
There word used is Dhruvatare, which is dhrivatara in the dual case. Dhurvatara means pole star. Dhruva in general could refer to the poles.
hi Anonymous,
That is a standard statement which you find everywhere from school books to wiki article to all the Siddhantas (quoted Siddhanta Shiromani). What does the next line say? From Niraksha desa samsthaanam - from no aksha rekha, i.e. from equator where the degree is zero, it is seen on the horizon, 90 degrees apart, that is the information conveyed. Not that you will see a star, and that the text was written when a star was at Dhruva. Any time, any date this Dhruva is there at 90 degrees from Niraksha rekha. A star may be there or not at all times, but you recognise it as Dhruva tara - a generic expression.
Suppose you want to say 'tara' refers to star, look at the dictionary meaning. The root stem is 'tr' which means "to pass across or over, cross over, sail across, to get through (these are used in this sense in Rig Veda). Tara is a point of 'crossing' - that is the root meaning. So 90 deg point is where the Dhruva passes through - this is the true meaning of Dhruva Tara.
From another angle, since you seem to believe SS, accept the derived version from SS that the Pole stars are present only within 54 degree span. You can never see Vega and Canopus within that 54 degree span.
G.Krishnan Sir,
Please read my paper - 3 parts published so far, 2 more to come - in the Astrological magazine given in the link https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2020/07/my-research-paper-on-siddhantic-concept.html
G. Krishian
Jayasree Saanathan Ph.D
I am treading very carefully with unraveling
the true identity of Dhruva in accordance with
verses from the vedas and puranas. The veracity
of our sages cannot be questioned. There are
many who doubt and think that our sages could
not have discovered anything profound without
sophisticated instruments. Interestingly, many
of the lauded quantum physicists share one thing
in common. They all had read the vedas and drew
inspiration from it. Our sages never say that
they have discovered something. They always give
credit to more ancient sages. These great truths
had been discovered in the earlier Satya Yuga
and far surpasses the modern scientific knowledge.
Our sages of the Kali Yuga merely got in tune with
this knowledge with their yogic power and selflessly
passed it on to us. However we have to refine our
translations and interpretations which is only
feasible through healthy discussion.
Your articles are insightful as you are also
committed to bring out the brilliance of our
sages rather than projecting yourself. I will
read your paper on siddhantic-concept so that
a more enriched discussion can prevail. Thanks
G. Krishian
Siddhantic Mystery:
Parasara (600/700 AD)
Subtract 444 from the Saka Year and divide by 60. The result is the degrees of trepidation.
This means that Saka 444 has been taken as the zero ayanamsa year and the rate of ayanamsa is 60” per annum.
Prthudakasvamin (864 AD)
The trepidation in Saka 800 would be 6° 30’
The means that the rate of ayanamsa is
(6 x 60 x 60 + 30 x 60) / (800 - 444) or 61.18”.
Amaraja
Prthudakasvamin’s trepidation in Saka 800 should be corrected to 6°
This means that the rate of ayanamsa is (6 x 60 x 60) / 356 or 60.67”
Munjala (932 AD)
Trepidation in Saka 854 is 6° 50’
This means that the rate of ayanamsa is
(6 x 60 x 60 + 50 x 60) / (854 – 444) or 60”
Sripati (1056 AD)
Gives the same rule as Parasara.
Satananda (1099 AD)
The rate of precession is 1° in 60 years
This is the same as a rate of precession of 60” per annum.
Bhaskara (1183 AD)
The trepidation for Saka 1105 is 11°
The rate of ayanamsa is (11 x 60 x 60) / (1105 – 444) that is 59.9”
Exploring the Mystery
The Surya Siddhanta has clearly stated the rate of ayanamsa as 54".
How is that our Bharata astronomers/astrologers are giving the
rate of ayanamsa around 60" ? Did these astronomers/astrologers
know something that we have missed?
It is interesting to note that when we take the ayanamsa of 54"
as a measurement of the interval of Right Ascension on the equator
it becomes an interval of 54 / cos 24° or 59.11" when projected on
the ecliptic.
Perhaps the Bharata astronomers/astrologers used Polar Coordinates (R.A.) and Ecliptic Coordinates with which we must familiarize ourselves to
unravel Siddhantic Knowledge.
The reason is the rate of precession is not constant. Today it is accelerating - first time since the scientists had started recording the rate a few centuries ago - such that the rate today is different from what it was detected 10 years ago!!
Read the 2nd part of my paper in precession where I have given the steadily decreasing rate till now.
Read the synopsis: https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2020/08/three-orbital-cycles-of-siddhantic.html
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