Wednesday, November 23, 2011

Indus girl and Indra loka have remnants in the South West Americas?

As more and more information is flowing from different parts of world on their past cultures, I am surprised to see a similarity between them and what we see in the depictions and narrations in Hindu texts. The Puranic narrations seem to be true on many counts in revealing the history of very olden times. The researches by  Stephen Oppenheimer on genetic trail of man, by Glen Milne on the sea level in the past and by Graham Hancock on water-buried civilizations are giving credence to what Hindu texts have recorded through the words of visionary sages of an undated past.

To begin with, let me show a surprise match between a female figurine found in the Indus valley  and the traditional Hopi female of Pueblo culture.


















Indus figurine with prominent hair buns on two sides of the head.

This hairstyle is not found anywhere in India, nor in old statues. There are numerous female figures carved in temples all over India, but none of them have been reported to exhibit this kind of huge side buns. 

This style is not found anywhere in the west or north west of Indus culture, but is seen even today among the Hopi women of Pueblo culture!


                                         Traditional hair style of Hopi women



They use a curved wooden stick and roll the hair around it. A similar technique was in use until recently in India, but the bun was made behind the head and not on the sides of the head. More often, the bun will be made perfectly circular by rolling ribbon around a huge ring. It will be fitted at the back side of the head by rolling the hair around it. Heroines of old Tamil movies did exhibit this kind of a bun. But I have never seen anyone sporting the buns sideways.

There are other female figurines of the Indus showing similar side buns with a spiral.





Though this is not exactly seen in the Hopi women, theirs is a spiral bun only. It is possible that it can be made to face forward or sideways.

This is a traditional hairstyle of the Hopi women and not used at all ages. It is interesting to know that only unmarried girls who are expecting courtship sport this hair style! 

While looking for further clues to solve the mystery of Indus hairstyle appearing in Pueblo culture, I happened to come across greater surprises! One of them  is about the way they depict the Sun God!



Sun God is popular in many cultures. But He has a specific description Indian Iconography. The popular shrines in India dedicated to Sun God do not actually depict the Sun as per the rules of iconography that existed 2000 years ago! The 58th chapter on Iconography of temple images found in  Brihad Samhitha written by Varahamihira before 5th  century BP has 3 verses on how the image of Sun must be sculpted.


There are no weapons held by the Sun God. All that he will hold is a lotus in each hand. He must be in standing position wearing  a crown and pendants with garlands hanging from his neck. From breast to the feet he should appear covered. There is a specific mention that he must be adorned in the method followed in Northern countries. Which Northern country does Varahamihira have in mind?  Varahamihira was himself  Sun worshiper - something he mentions in his book and lived in Avanti in Central India.



From his location in Avanti, he can not be referring to North India. Perhaps he had in mind countries north to the Himalayas. We will discuss it later. But we have to take note that he is not referring to any country in the north west or west of India such as Egypt, Rome or Babylon which had Sun worship.

Lets take a look at Sun as seen in Indian temples.
The style is as per Varahamihira's description.
The lotus in the 2 hands is a prominent feature.

 When we look at West Asian and European regions for their depiction of Sun God, we don't find any connection with the Hindu Sun God.

Take a look at Ra, the Egyptian Sun God:

The Celtic Sun is in standing position but is holding a spear and looks almost naked.



The Sumerian Sun God has weapons in hand and stands with one leg raised.



The Akkadian Sun God is seated.


The Roman Sun God sports a weapon and not exactly upright.


Now take a look at the Sun God of Incas, he is holding a rounded flower- like item in his hands.


Yet another depiction in Kachina doll from the same Incas. is this dress Northern style?


Compare it with another depiction from Indian sculpture.

A similar dress, covering only a part of his legs.

A popular depiction of the Sun God Inti of Inca again. What does he hold in his hands?



 This similarity with Inca's Sun nearly half way away from India looks perplexing, but not so when we look at other traditions in the western part of the Americas. The traditional residences of the Pueblo people give me a better idea of why we are seeing these similarities.

Before explaining that, let me tell in brief where the Sun God is supposed to reside as per the Puranas. 

The Sun (Surya) is a Deva and was 'last seen' in the North! Before that he was in the South with his wife Sanjna. At some time, unable to bear his heat, Sanjna escaped to the North. Sun also followed suit and joined her in the North. This Puranic narration shows the shift of period of the sunlight from the South to the North. This happened some 40,000 years ago. Stephen Oppenheimer's tracing of human migration confirms this information. The migration has gone to the Northern hemisphere through India!

Again looking at Hindu texts, Mahabharata narrates a version of all the countries around the world in early chapters of Bheeshma parva. There it identifies a place called Suryavaan - a mountain - where the sun shines over head. This place is located in continent called Shaka dweepa. I have done an extensive analysis of the location of Shaka dweepa through various cross references in my Tamil blog on tracing the origin of Tamils
(http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.com). I will write details later. For this post I want to say that Suryavaan was indeed a part of the 90 meridian range near the Equator that is now submerged in the Indian ocean.


It was mentioned as Suryavaan because of its location on the Equator. The first Sun worship must have started there. Mahabharata mentioned that four varnas including Brahmins who were called as Maga Brahmins lived in Shaka Dweepa. As a cross reference we do find Varahamihira mentioning that only Maga Brahmins are entitled to do pooja to Sun God. ( Brihad Samhitha 60-19). There are references to Maga Brahmins having migrated to Indian mainland for the sake of installing and carrying out worship of Sun God.


There is an opinion that the Maga Brahmins had come from north west of the Indus. It can not be so because (1) Mahabharata description of Shaka dweepa where Maga Brahmins originally lived does not match with any of the West Asian or European land,
(2) Sun worship must have originated in a place where Sun shone overhead / in equator and not in latitudes north of Tropic of Cancer where Sun can never be seen over head.
(3) such a notion was fed by an assumption that Brahmins were the Aryans who migrated from West Asia or Central Europe. This theory has been discredited now and
(4) the Maga Brahmins were not well versed in Rig Vedas showing them to be different from the  Brahmins who settled in Saraswathy regions.


From Suryavaan, the sun worship has shifted to North (India) and further north when the Northern hemisphere became hospitable for living some 40,000 years ago. The Sun God of Hindu texts lived in the North, in Uttar Kuru which was far north to the Himalayas. There is a chapter in Valmiki Ramayana on the countries in all directions to Bharat. The Vanar-king Shugreeva narrates step by step the countries encountered in the North until the Northern pole. These details has been analysed in my Tamil blog. Accordingly, the ancient land of Devas or what they called Indra loka was identified with numerous cross references from both Tamil and sanskrit texts.


Uttarkuru was around lake Vaikhanas. Vaiskanas is the present day Lake Baikal. 
The wives of Pandu bore children from the Devas belonging to Uttar kuru according to Mahabharata.
Karna was the son of Surya Deva of Deva land where Uttar Kuru was situated. The fact about people having lived in those areas before the last Ice Age confirm that the Puranic narration of Deva loka and Uttra kuru are not figments of imagination.

Now coming to the main story of this post, the Devas were always depicted as having lived in Sky- cities. The capital of Deva land was Amaravathy which was seen as though it was hanging from the sky or floating among the clouds. A similar description is given to Lanka of Ravana in Valmiki Ramayana. Lanka was situated on top of Trikoota peak surrounded by three peaks. Its location on top of the peak seemed as though it was a sky-city or it was hanging from the sky. On seeing it, Hanuman wondered whether it was Amaravathy, the capital city of the Devas. This shows that the city of the Devas was situated on top of a hill or on high places.

While looking at the Pueblo culture who have the Sun God looking similar to the Hindu depiction of the Sun, we are in for a greater surprise because the Pueblos also lived on 'sky-cities'.

Pueblo areas. The top one in pink was the old Pueblo location.


Look at their houses built on hills.









1879 Photo of a Pueblo dwelling is given below. Puranas say that Devas do not walk on the ground! That is why they had their dwellings on the Sky!! Here the Pueblo people live above the ground. They had another similarity in the form of Sun God  in the way depicted by Hindu texts.


What do all these indiacte?


Looking at the map of human migration around the world in the last 80,000 years as mapped by Stephen Oppenheimer on the basis of DNA studies, this similarity gives some clues.

Take a look at this map.


(click the map to see it clearly along with the time line)

The grey lines depict the route of human migration. About 40,000 years ago, man had landed in the Northern areas of the globe as the climate was warm enough for living. I note that period as the time of peak of Devas culture. The Northern dress noted by Varahamihira referred to the dress of the people of that location in North. It must also be noted that other characters such as Revatha and Karana were also born with "udheechya vesha" according to Puranas. It means 'the Northern dress' - a glowing dress complete with ornaments over the body.

It was the time North America and Russia were land connected. People had migrated through that land when Ice Age set in. They turned southwards and moved along with the western coast of North and South America. They settled mostly around the equator in those regions. This happened 10,000 years ago according to genetic studies.

The Pueblos, the Incas and the Mayans settled in these regions. By the time they came down to these places, the old glory of devahood is almost gone. The remnant culture had existed in the form of their dwellings and Sun God. Even the sacrificial pits bear resemblance to  what it used to be for the Devas.

According to Vastu sastra, the ancient science of architecture, the Devas had a different type of architecture and it was altered for the people of Bharat.

The one place connected with Devas in Tamilnadu was Poompukar. From the Tamil texts such as Silapapdhikaram and Manimekalai we come to know that Poompukar was occupied by King Muchukunda in whose custody Indra, the lord of the Devas left the upkeep of his regions. Indra installed his helper, called "Naalangadi Deva" at Poompukar in  return for the help. It was in memory of Indra, the people of Poompukar were doing a festival in the name of Indra until 3rd century AD.

A man made structure found by Graham Hancock off the Poompukar coast has been dated to 11,500 years BP. (It must be noted that the last time we hear about Indra or Devas was around 10,000 years ago, when Indra's son was captured by Surapadma. It was around the same time the famous elephant of Indra - which in all likelihood be the Woolly Mammoth (found in North) became extinct.)
The structure now under water is more or less round or oval shaped.




A similar round or oval structures are found in Arkaim, in what we identified as Uttarkuru.




These were found to be abandoned after setting them to fire.
It must be noted that in the Vedic Homas, the Yaga shalas (sacrificial pits) are burnt after the worship / homa is over.

The surprising part of it is that we find a similar circular sacrificial pits in Pueblo dwellings.




They also bear a burnt evidence!



They bear resemblance to Arkaim models and Poompukar structure!

Now take a look at the map again.






The red line is the route of Sun worship.
It started in Suryavan in the Indian Ocean near the Equator,
entered India and went past the Himalayas to far Northern latitudes.
That was the time the culture of Devas was at it peak.
Surya was an important deity of the North.
The red line turns to Northe America and fianlly settled on the west coast around 10,000 years ago.
The Pueblos have a story that their ancestors came from the North and
therefore they had a broad Northern Road.

The circles in blue are the locations where sun worship occurred without much deviation.

Now coming to the Indus girl with her 2 side buns.
In all probability, the women of North (Uttar Kuru and Deva land) had this hairstyle.
This figurine is sporting a voluptous look and almost naked.
The similar style in Hopi people is connected with the period of courtship of an unmarried girl.
This reminds me of the Apsaras women of Deva land who were known for freedom in personal life.
They were seductive and might have looked similar to the depiction of the Indus figurine.


Finally let me show another similarity in the depictions of Goddesses.

This figurine found in Tlatilco has naked looks surrounded by fierce figures (Bhootha Ganas?)



This looks similar to the Chamuda of Mahua temple at Shivpuri in Madhyapradesh (10th century AD)



Perhaps this was how Chamunda was depicted in times of yore, but modified later.

How this figure traveled to Tlatilco in Mexico?
Was it taken by sculptors who learnt it from India?
If so, how did people there develop the worship of this deity?

The only plausible answer looks like a migration of people for 1000s of years via India to the North and then to the Americas.
The customs they carried had deteriorated over time, but such customs have lived almost in tact in Bharat!!
In conclusion I would say that an analysis of Hindu texts
supported by Tamil texts do yield the explanation for puranic accounts
which are now getting proved by modern branches of science.

42 comments:

B Shantanu said...

Jayasree: Thanks...this is utterly fascinating!
Can I please post this on Satyameva-Jayate.org as a guest post from you?
Thanks,

P.S. You may find these 2 posts interesting: http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/05/21/latin-american-hanuman/ and
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2011/10/07/krishna-rathyatra-egypt/

Dale Drinnon said...

Jayasree has posted a comment on my blog with a link to this entry. I appreciate the connection between our two articles and I recommend also that interested readers check out my own article at

http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/pretty-ladies-and-indus-script.html

And I would like also to comment on the origin of the culture at the Ninety east ridge as stated here. On my blog I have much information about cultures originating in Sundaland (Now sunken to become our modern Indonesia)It would be a very small modification to say that this arera of the ridge was connected to Sundaland and/or that the same culture would be found in both areas since they are geographically so close. Furthermore, I have always felt that the cultual area of Uttar Kuru extended over the Bering straits into North America. Since this article places Uttar Kuru in Northern Siberia, that too seems likely.

I am much interested in your chart on the advance of sun-worship around the world and I should also like to post it on my blog, with credit, and a small additonal comment I should like to make there.

Best Wishes, Dale D.
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/

seadog4227 said...

The only modern depiction of this hairstyle is that of Priness Leia Organa in the Star Wars movie series.Used to cover the ears in colder regions?

jayasree said...

Dear Shantanuji,
Please go ahead.

I read the posts you have mentioned.
The first one has the imprint of Maya Danava.
There is also a scene from Ramayana depicted in Piedras Negras, Guatemala. The art is Indian.
It can be read here:-
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Pacific.htm#Maya%20Civilization%20of%20Mexico


The last time we hear about Maya Danava was in Sabha parva of Mahabharata where he constructed the Palace for the Pandavas. There is a cross-reference from 2nd AD Tamil text Silapapdhikaram that says that Maya taught his art to a group of sculptors. In my opinion they were the masters for the sculptors of Mohanjadaro and Harappa. The Great bath and step wells of these regions have their genesis in the tank built by Maya for the Pandavas in which Duryodhana slipped and invited the insult from Draupadhi.
I am working on Mayan connection to Great bath at the moment.

What I want to say is that after this, Maya vanished from Bharat but seemed to have surfaced in the Mayan civilization. We have to search for more clues from Hindu texts to see the route he had taken to go there.

The 2nd link on Rath yatra in Egypt - it is also a proof for the reliability of Ramayana and Mahabharata as true documents of history. A split in the population of North India took place at 4 times until Mahabharatha (5000 years ago)

(1) At the end of the Ice age when the first floods inundated habitations in the Arabian sea about 13,500 years ago, the people living on the extended land in the west coast of India split into two, with one of them entering the Saraswathy river through its mouth in Dwaraka (first Dwaraka which is now under water. The current Dwaraka is the 7th one, Bet Dwaraka, the 6th and Dwarka of Krishna was the 5th) and another group entering the Persian Gulf and reaching Persia.

I am relying on Hancock and Milne's maps for this. Please read this link:
http://www.grahamhancock.com/archive/underworld/AshCF1.php?p=1

The original name of Persia was Parswa, a Sanskrit word which means left side. We in India don't take the left course and consider it as inauspicious. Those who entered the region to the left of saraswathy river were considered as un-Vedic and therefore Mlechas. The first birth of Mleccha- hood of the current era after the end of the Ice age started then. Those who landed in Persia had the same cultural roots with those who entered Saraswathy but due to lack of Vedic connection, those practices degenerated.

(cont'd)

jayasree said...

(2)In the times of Sagara, the ancestor of Bhageeratha of Ikshvaku dynasty, (before the birth of river Ganga), a great war was fought between the kings of North India and Sagara. The kings were defeated by Sagara who banished them to Mlechahood. They went to the NW and W of Indus and perhaps became yavanas, shakas and Paradas, with stipulations imposed on them to be half tonsured, fully tonsured and growing beard. These are un-vedic looks. They were made to be so. Thus we find a period before 10,000 years ago, where another group from Vedic sect left for the Middle east with memories of Vedic culture.

(3)Another banishment of people from Vedic India happened when the so-called Arya -dasyu war took place 8000 years ago. This was actually a war for succession among the 5 sons of Yayathi which Man Muller thought was Aryan- Dravidian war. The losers Anu and Druhu were banished to the Middle east and NW of Afghanistan. Ahura Mazda comes in this period. I have analysed this in my Tamil blog which I will translate into English some day. These people were truly obsessed for having to leave the Vedic fold. They maintained contact with main land. It was a few hundred years after this, Rama of Dasaratha was born. Rama's name had spread among the freshly banished people of the Middle east that everywhere Rama shabda was heard. Ramases, Ramadan, Ramallah, Ramath, Ramah Romulus, Rhemus etc came to be heard.

(4) The last time a notable migration happened was when the women and other folks of Arjuna's convoy were abducted by Mlechas (from NW of Indus) when they were being escorted to safer areas after the deluge at Dwaraka that followed Krishna's exit. The Mahabharata gives the account of this in Musala parva from which we come to know that Royal women of Krishna and others, some of them pregnant were abducted by the Mlechas.

Darius, the Aryan of the Aryan must have come in the lineage of one such Royal lady abducted from Arjuna's convoy. The presently talked about Susa in Iran also confirm such abductions . Susa is a Sanskrit word which means 'parturient woman'- a woman in labour, about to give birth to a child. Why should they call a place by that name unless some important woman had labour pain on the way of crossing that place? The copper plate found in that place shows a man pouring water to another's hand - which happens only in daanam (gifting something by pouring water) - a Vedic practice. So Susa was formed when an abducted lady of the Arjuna's clan developed labour pain and delivered a baby there. The group must have settled at that place itself and started a new life.

Like this there are numerous people who had gone over there carrying the memory of Vedic life and Krishna. Through one of them the Rath yatra could have been started.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Dale Drinnon,

I am happy to get your feedback on this post. Thanks for taking up the Sun-God idea further.

On Sundaland, I have other opinions to offer based on Hindu texts and Tamil texts which I have written in Tamil and not yet in English. I will soon write them in English.

Sundaland corresponds to Hindu depiction of Tripura samhara, the destruction of 3 sides, by literal meaning. There is a possibility that the disturbed people spread eastward across the Pacific and westward towards Madagaskar.

But from the Tamil texts we come to know that there were scattered areas of mountain tops where people lived. The Malaya range in which Lakshdweep, Maldives are currently seen also supported the people of that era. These spots and Mascarene plateau formed a link between East Africa and Sundaland.

This area was previously called as Shaka dweepa and later became the land of Pandyas / Kumari. The time of these two periods were 30,000 + and 12,000 + years before present. A complete wipe out of these regions happened 3500 years ago.

I placed Suryavaan on 90 east ridge, as per the narration given in Valmiki Ramayana which traces the other visible peaks at the time on that range. This range enters Indian mainland and is seen in Nagaland. There are references to tunnels in this range through which people moved and even lived. A dynasty called Thondaiman was established by a person born to a woman (Naga woman) who lived in a tunnel in the mountain off the coast of Nagappattinam in the South East India.

Given below are the links from Ramayana on Southward countries and Northward countries. From verse 24 and 25 onwards, you will find the locations southward of Lanka as given in Ramayana in this link:-
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga41/kishkindha_41_frame.htm

(The word Yojana given in that text is equal to roughly 8 miles)

You will find the countries in the North of India and Uttar kuru where Sun and moon do not shine always (means, far northern latitudes)in this link.

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/kishkindha/sarga43/kishkindha_43_frame.htm

I read your post on Denesovans.
I am awaiting to get more info on them as I find them to be fitting the description of Devas!! They must have existed in Sundaland when Mt Toba erupted. A group of them became the Chinese who fit into the description of Shiva-Ganas (warriors) of Shiva!! They moved upto Tripura in present day India.

Another group traveled to the Far North and established themselves as Devas. By the logic of Deva and Asura interpretation in Hindu texts, Asuras of Deep South were gigantic in size. Gigantism is a feature of marine creatures in Antartica even now. If Asuras were gigantic in size, Devas must have been the opposite of it - smaller in size! The small openings in sky cities confirm my opinion that those who have to climb to enter their houses must have small body to be easy to push themselves in!!

The following post from my Blog might be interest to you.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2010/12/discovery-of-30000-year-human-imprint.html

Thanks once again for the interaction.

Regards,
Mrs Jayasree Saranathan.

jayasree said...

@ seadog4227

Yes.
This original and traditional style of Hopi women got the name Squash Blossom hairdo, from the shape of the squash flower. See the flower in this link. Film stars and others copied from them.

http://rebelshaven.com/SWFFAQ/hopi.html

Chakri said...

Madam,

Simply superb. Never came across such a compelling juxtaposition of our Puranas with the modern research spanning the entire Globe. Hopefully your analysis helps us to realize how GREAT our Bharata desam was, though I am writing this from USA. But again I developed all this interest after moving here.

Hopefully your research will help people understand more about Vedic Dharma and follow some of the forgotten practices and keep God in center of our lives. Wish I knew Tamil to read your Tamil blog. Hopefully someone finds time to translate all those articles at the eraliest.

Aishu said...

The comment section has as much information as the main article itself. Superb revelation. :))

Ramanathan said...

Hello Madam,
Brilliant article. My sincere appreciations for it. I have a small question here. You say that the Maga Brahmins were not familiar with the Rig Vedas. Do you mean by that, Rig,yajur saman and atharvan or only the Rig veda?.

Regards
Ramanathan.R

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ramanathan.

This link gives details about Maga brahmins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakaldwipiya

jayasree said...

@ Ramanathan,

Maga Brahmins lived in a geographic location different from Bharat. That location is identified as Shakadweepa which I have analysed based on Mahabharata narration and written in my Tamil blog
http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.com/

Articles 57,58 and 59 in that blog are about the location of that region. In my opinion that must have been the period around 30,000 years ago when Daksha Prajapathi came into existence. The identification of 27 stars of the Zodiac with Aries at its head started then. (Remember Daksha came to have the head of the goat!)

If we say Brahmins were there, it automatically means that some form of Vedic culture must have been there and accompanying Vedanga Jyothisha (astrology) must also be there.

Rig Vedas came later, when Vaivasvata Manu, the Dravideswara entered Sarasvathy through a select group of people during the first flood after the end of the Ice age. Read my Tamil article 48 in that blog. That was 13,500 years before now. The people who came with him gave Rig Vedas.So there is no chance for the Maga Brahmins of Deep south to have learned or created Rig Vedas. They concentrated on Sun worship only. Perhaps they created and studied vedas related to Sun worship.

During Magadha period, they were invited to install Sun deity and do pooja. Mihiras were Maga brahmins. Varaha mihira was said to be a Maga Brahmin. He has written about himself in Brihad samhita as a sun worshiper and also said that only Maga brahmins were entitled to install and do pooja for Sun God. The maga Brahmins who came and settled in Bharat, learned Rig veda but it is said that their chanting was not like the original rig Vedins.

I am still searching for the olden Vedas that existed before Manu established settlements in Sarasvathy. At my current level of inputs, I think sama veda was the oldest and it was there in Deep South - in Pandyan lands and in Shaka dweepa before that. Ravana was an expert in Sama veda. sama veda was the source of some of the astrological concepts and also Gandharva music of very old times (pari paadal). There are inputs to substantiate this in the commentary to the Tamil text Silappadikaram by Adiyaarkku Nallaar. I will write them some time.

jayasree said...

Thanks Aishu.

jayasree said...

Thanks for the comment Mr Chakri. If someone could help me in translating the Tamil articles, I would be very grateful.

Ramanathan said...

Dear Madam,
In the Bhagavata purana it is said that when Daksha was performing the yajna called birhaspathi sava. There were Brahmins thsat chanted the 4 vedas. The 4 main priests of any soma yajna are Hotr(The priests that invoke the deities of the sacrifice with the Rig veda), The adhvaryu(The priests who gives the offering with the yajur), the udgatha(The priest who pleased the gods with the sama gaana) and the brahma(Traditionally associated with the atharva and whose function is to perform prayashchita for any shortcomings in the performance). So according to this should not the rig veda existed even before manu?. Also would not the lack of the knowledge of the rig veda
render the brahmanas of the south incapable of such yajnas?. I am just starting an intellectual discussion based on the bhagavata and many puranas. Please let me know your views. Would be interested in it

Regards
Ramanathan

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ramanathan,

There were many Vedas - even 1000s of Vedas before the start of Kaliyuga. Veda Vysaa picked out some and compiled them into four. The Rig Vedas are one among them, Rig Vedas were the ones created on the banks of river sarasvathy.

River Sarasvathy was not in existence during the last Ice age (18,000 years ago)- there are puranic narrations to substantiate this. She was the first one to appear (before the Ganges) when the Ice Age ended with glaciers of the Himalayas melting out. So creation of Rig Vedas must have happened after that (13,000 years bp when she was flowing wide and all through the way from the Himalayas to the Arabian sea). If you have read my 48th article in my Tamil blog on how and where Vaivasvatha Manu landed after the deluge, you would know the arguments in favour of this.


Vaivasvatha Manu, the progenitor of the current era of man found in India came after Dakhsa Prajapathi. Vaivasvata Manu came in the lineage of Marichi (himself a Prajapathi) whereas Daksha was another Prajapathi by himself. If Daksha is like a father, Vaivasvatah Manu is like the son of the Daksha's brother. That is the relationship between them.

Daksha prajapathi stayed on in the Deep south even before that. The Shaka dweepa description of 4 varnas with Maga as brahmin varna existed at that location. We have no inputs other than the Sun intonation attributed to Maga brahmins. They also did yajnas, but we do not know what Vedas they had.

What we have now (the 4 vedas) have progenitors who came into existence after Manu or there may be some mantras which have survived from times before Manu and included in the yajna based mantras. As far as I have heard, among the currently available Vedas, there is one oldest Yajur mantra which was uttered when the Sun was in Magam (beginning of Leo). At the current rate of precession of the sun at 72 years per degree, this mantra was uttered 10,368 years ago.

The puranas and Bhagavatha have come up in Post Manu period. They would be explaining the Daksha yajna in the light of the yajna practices of the current era. That is why you get to see the current yajna practices that have been formulated post Manu, for the narration of the events of a period far before Manu.

There are very many narrations for the same event in diverse puranas. We have to have that clarity -while doing historical research - how to interpret the narrations. We have to have the grasp of the basics, understand the logic in the events and applicability because most puranic events and even deities have 3-fold meanings, cosmological, divine and physical. And there is the problem of Time scale also. Apart from these, we have to look for cross references without which our deductions will not carry validity.

In reply to another point in your comment, there are very less South Indians who know Rig Vedas. The Chathurvedi mangalams formed in Tamil lands by the Tamil kings who brought brahmins of all the 4 vedas were very later developments (1000 + years ago). Even then groups of people specializing in specific shakas were there. The available evidence from epigraphy and literature is that what is called as 4 vedas in Tamil lands consisted of Bauziyam, Taittriyam, Talavakaram and Dharma sastram, This is also told by Nacchinaarkkiniyar in his commentary to Tholkaappiyam in explaining 'naan marai' where he said the 4 vedas such as Rig etc were not learned by Tamilians.
As you know Krishna yajur Vedam flourished in South India. Talavakaram also was prevalent.

Anonymous said...

<<<<<>>>>

<<<>>>>>

The Agony of reading this article is unexplainable and for sometime unbearable.

Nobody who is alive today has personal contact with Sri Rama. we all accept Him because we were told by our mother or father or somebody about him, otherwise we would not have known about him. When we accept what our mother/father/somebody told about the Avatar of Rama and the story and discuss it and portray it and pray it, why we have doubts on the timing of His on Earth, which was mentioned as Treta Yuga and that it was lakhs of years ago.

This blog is a very, very sacred one. Now we should wash it because this Article spoiled it for a bit.

Kaliyuga people can never understand the previous yuga dharmas, leave alone the events and their timings.

a known fellow.

Ramanathan said...

Dear Madam,
Excellent analysis and collection of facts. Your discussions are really intellectually stimulating!!!. This is the first time in my life that I have come across a lady (Please do not take offense, since I only have come across ladies who only show interests in external pleasures like dress, Jewelery etc)who has this depth of dharmic knowledge. Not to exaggerate, I could rate you on par with Maitreyi of this Kaliyuga Mam!!! (of the Chandogya Upanishad).

I wish to bring to your notice one more point. As a person who is familiar with the Taittriya Samhita i know there are many passages in the Taittriya samhita which mentions Rik's to be chanted in various yajna's and also there is a direct mention that what is achieved with the Rig is stable. So there are reference to the rig veda. Also in the Rig vedeya purusha sukta, we find the mention of the 4 vedas being created from the cosmic person. Also in the Rig veda we find words like "Adhvara" which are related to the yajur veda. As you say the taittriya samhita was flourishing in the south. That means a lot of the Rik's chanted as a part of the Taittriya samhita overlap with the Rig vedic portions(like for example in the Agnishtoma yajna, in the 1st kanda of the TS, Riks from the 4th mandala of the Rig veda, whose rishi is Vamadeva, are chanted) , implying there was at least some Rig Vedic portions being chanted here in the south. Also surely you would know about the Yajnavalkya Vs Vaishampayana duel where due to some offense commited by Yajnavalkya, Vaishampayana, who was given the Yajur veda by Vyaasa cursed him to vomit the Yajur veda and forget it. The rest of his shishyas changed themselves to Tittiri birds(Patridges) and ate it up. It is from this story that the Yajur veda acquired the name Taittriya(from tittiri). So from this story does is not imply that there could have been major portions of the Taittriya samhita existing in the north, considering the place of residence of yajnavalkya to be Mithila?.

So to conclude finally, based on the internal references of the taittriya krishna yajurveda about other veda's, could we conclude that they were existing in parallel down south?. Eager & excited to know your views.

Regards
Ramanathan

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Ramanathan,
Thanks for the observations. You have given me another point of view which might be helpful in understanding the inputs I come across.

Anonymous said...

what really hurt me is comparing "ugly" sculptures of Mleccha with vedic sculptures. We MAY all belong to one race FOR SURE, but those mlecchas were prohibited ones, but they landed on our land because of the advent of Kaliyuga, thats why we are learning English and trying to follow their culture as best as possible and living a mentally slave life - but this is expected and is happening.

Lord Macaulay's soul would have got satisfied FOR we are compressing the history to thousands of years ourselves.

This is Kaliyuga 5113, and discussing Vedas, let me tell you a story that i heard .....

After the advent of Kali Yuga and after passing of more than 2500 years, there was a discussion held by some pandits in order to find the "faults" in the works of Sri Veda Vyasa. And when the discussion started, a parrot came and sit on a tree branch next to the discussion hall and used to yell loudly "nava nava." All pandits felt a kind of disturbance with that bird, as they were unable to proceed in their discussion. They tried to get it away by throwing some things, but still it used to come back and yell the same way. After 4-5 days have gone, Sri Mahakavi Kalidas happened to come to that area. Having learnt of his arrival, pandits invited him to the discussion and told him the parrot thing. Then, he too came to the discussion hall. Parrot did the same. It yelled "nava nava." Then, Sri Mahakavi Kalidasa yelled "pancha pancha." Then, the parrot flew away without looking back. Then the pandits asked him what is the reasoning behind. Then, Sri Mahakavi Kalidasa replied that the parrot is none other than vedavyasa (remember it is told that vedavyasa is one of the 7 chiranjeevas) and he came there to check whether any of the pandits who is participating has completed "9 sastras," because only those who were skillful in those sastras can at least "understand" what he wrote (Mahabharata and number of puranas and other fantastic literary works). So in the form of parrot he asked "nava nava." When Sri Mahakavi Kaliadasa replied that he himself is skilful only in 5 sastras by saying "pancha pancha," the bird flew away…because there is no meaning at all to that discussion because no one is skilful in 9 sastras that are needed at least to understand what he had written, so vedavyas felt satisfied and felt no need to defend himself.

It is better we go for atmajnana for whatever little lifespan we have in this yuga than to timeline the history.

I know I will get curses for my previous comment and for this. Its okay. They only add a few to the long list of them that I "was able to collect".

What our elders said is 100% RIGHT without a doubt. I am ready to give my head to defend this, even though i am big coward in my other personal matters.

a known fellow2.

Romesh said...

Thirumathi Saranathan

I regret raising a point that is not linked to the article.

I would like your response to one query of mine. Is Kanimozhi's problems likely to be temporarily resolved on Monday when the Supreme Court resumes hearing on her bail application?

I have a particular animus directed at her and her father for all that they arbitrarily and unilaterally did in the name of Tamil culture - which they had no right to do.

Nanriyudan. Vanakkam

Prashant said...

This is a follow up to Romesh's question. Kanimozhi has been released on bail. This could be because of the moon traversing the 11th sign from her raasi. Are her problems therefore temporarily over? Your earlier analysis did not indicate that. But the bail might mean a respite. What do you think?

jayasree said...

@ Romesh and Prashant,

One observation at the outset:-
Not knowing her exact time of birth is disadvantageous to make accurate predictions.

For a nature of events such as confinement and bail, the dasa- bhukthis will play a bigger role. Unless it is favorable, the daily motion of moon may not help much. In the daily motion of moon, there must be Tara bala. Kanimozi received the bail judgment when moon was in Purvashada. It was Pratyak tara (5th star from her birth star when taken in groups of nine)from her birth star, which is not a good one. So tara bala was not there.

Moreover for the lagna (I assumed for her), Moon is the 6th lord from the moon sign and is in 12th to the lagna. So Moon can not be a do-gooder. But even then, looking from her moon sign, the sign lord going to exaltation in the 9th in transit might have given this relief to her. For Pisces lagna, Libra has a whooping 30 points in ashtakavarga. Saturn in transit in such a high bindu- sign will be positive to the native. Saturn is in its own asterism (Uttara Bhadrapada)in the natal chart. That adds to its strength. Perhaps she is running Mercury -Saturn - Saturn now. On the whole I find this respite to be related saturn's transit.

Keeping aside the Kanimozi factor, why is Dayanidhi not yet touched? Raja told a couple of days ago that he is planning to write a book in which he is going to reveal the real culprit in the 2G scam. So he agrees that there is a scam. But whom he is referring to? Why is he not revealing that name now? Is that name (person) so close to power centre that he will not be pinned by the CBI?

I have my doubts on Dayanidhi Maran. He is no longer in MK's good books. But that is not a bother for him, for, Mk could not even shield his daughter. But Maran is getting shielded - how and by whom?

The scam was started by Maran. He had an understanding with Sonia and money must have passed on to her at that time itself. When Raja took over, the process of the scam was already in place. It was reported in local press that Raja was excited to get the monies that flowed to him through the process that was already set in motion. He handed over that money to MK. It was reported that MK wondered when so much money had come through that, why Maran had never given him a rupee. MK was not aware that Telecom was a milch cow until Raja was put there.

It was Maran who first revealed the scam in his attempt to tarnish Raja who has taken up his place. If Maran had not done that, this scam would have remained unknown for ever. That Maran now seems to be safer than PC. How could that happen unless he has some link with Sonia? The day Maran is pinned is the day the investigation will really make sense.

prathibha nandakumar said...

Today at on the first day of the new year 2012 i sat at my desk to continue my reference for the study i am doing on CHAMUNDI and i chanced upon this site and read this most astounding write up and think this is a sign. never have i been so moved after reading a scholarly paper. i am from bangalore staying at chennai for now and i will come and meet you madam jayashree. its as if Devi sent a light. dont ask me the exact reasons. I dont know. but i am elated and feel blessed. Thank you is not enough. all respects.
prathibha nandakumar
writer journalist

jayasree said...

Dear Prathibha Ma'am

Thanks for your compliments. I have already done some research on Chamundi for my Tamil blog. The worship of Durga started in the now-lost Shaka Dweepa in a place called Durgasaila - this is according to Mahabharata version. Durga worship as found in Nepal and Bengal were actually there in Tamilnadu much before they were introduced in those places.
Please read my article in this link. I have also given a pic showing the location of Durgasaila.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2011/10/durga-puja-has-early-traces-in-tamil.html

Chamundi worship traveled through Aravalli range which was part of a long range in the Arabian sea that is mostly sunk now but visible at some places as Lakshadweep and Maldives. I will explain you when we meet.

Please give your email id in this comment section. I will not publish it but will write to you for further communication. I am not showing my email id in this site, as I don't find time to reply all the mails which are mostly astrological queries.

Atmaram said...

Entire narrative based on surmises and presumptions with conscious oversight of relevant facts

jayasree said...

@ Atmaram,
Please tell us the 'relevant facts'.

Hendon Harris said...

I am doing research now on the similarities between the Anasazi people of the American South West
and the Vedic culture. As you undoubtedly know this theory does
not get much scholarly attention.
However, the evidence continues to
mount. Thank you for writing and sharing this article. I am now studying the fire pits that appear all over the ruins of the Anasazi settlements. I believe that they were ceremonial fire pits and were most likely used for worship and prayer just like the Tibetan Buddhist Homa fires and all other Vedic based religious fires. Thank you also for pointing out the similarity between the hairstyle of
the Hopi women and the Indus girl figurine. Were you aware that the most common wedding ceremony today
among the Native American people is
the Seven Step Seven Vow Wedding walked CLOCKWISE around the SACRED
flame. Google it for yourself for
verification. How is that possible without some Vedic contact in North America's pre Columbian past?
I have recently written a couple of
articles on the topic. Google:
"Were the Anasazi People Buddhist from Vedic India?" and "Mandalas,
Manjis, Mantras and Monuments".
In your article you show a 1879 Photo of a Pueblo dwelling. Look
at the freestanding rock formation
in front of the dwellings. Thats
definitely not random. Google: "Bent Hoodoo by Ned" and "Isan Home
to Ancient Dvaravati Ruins" All three of those rock formations have the same shape.

jayasree said...

Thank you very much Mr Hendon Harris. I am thrilled to read that my inferences are going in the right path. I will certainly read your articles and the links you have given.

I have written on the links between Incas and ancient Tamil-Vedic culture. But it is in Tamil and will be translated soon. I would appreciate if you could give me your email ID so that I can keep you informed of the articles when posted.

On pre-Columbiba North America, I have a route map based on my research (yet to be published). Within a week, I will be posting information on Mayan as found in Indian and Tamil texts. The Inca connection will be posted after that. Only after reading these two people (Mayan and Incas), I can move ahead with Anishinabe people whom I consider as people who were forced to move out of Sundaland (turtle island) due to natural calamities. I find lot of resemblance between them and Tamil / Vedic society. I consider them as early occupants of Indian Ocean in Sundaland whose direction of migration - I am yet to understand.

Hendon Harris said...

My email address is hendon.harris@gmail.com . Thank you for sending me your thoughts. Do you believe that 2000 years ago the religions of Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism were much more closely connected to their Vedic roots than
Buddhism and Jainism have evolved into today? If this was true then we should not be surprised to see much stronger obvious Vedic connections in Buddhism then than we see between them today We know there was a much closer affinity between them in the past because of the close relationship they had at the time of the Ellora Caves construction. For example I am beginning to wonder that if the Anasazi people did cut down so many
trees for the construction of their
cities and ceremonial fires did they eventually deforest their regions. And then given the Vedic
veneration of trees and wood did they then carve stone formations to
resemble trees? This may sound like a stretch but I believe that what we call "hoodoos" in the Pacific Southwest may in fact be these "stone carved trees" made to
permanently replace wood trees.
In this posting you show the picture of a Hopi community "1879
Dancer's Rock Hopi" which clearly has such a stone formation right outside their building. What are the chances that happened and stayed there naturally. How about
this beautiful one just a few miles away. "Bent Hoodoo by Ned" or the obviously Buddhist same shaped stone in Thailand "Isan home to ancient Dvaravati ruins". I have
said in previous writings that these "hoodoo" rock formations may
be Vedic shaped Chattras. Because there are so many of them throughout this particular section
of North America I am now open to the possibility that these may be
Vedic shaped stone images of trees.
The Vedic love and appreciation of
all forms of wood is clearly demonstrated in the "Bisti Badlands
Petrified Tree on Elevated Berms
Collections". There is so much more to be known and discovered.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Hendon Harris,

Thanks for writing. I went through the articles you have mentioned and also chanced upon your website. Quite interesting and informative materials.

Before sharing my thoughts on them, I wish to state that the contribution of science, especially the genetic studies must be incorporated while dealing with history. The route of human migration as per genetic studies is that about 10,000 years ago people from North Asia / Siberia walked across the Berring strait and entered North America.

As per my research a class of people who called themselves Devas lived in Siberia (Uttar Kuru) before the onset of last Ice age. This coincides with genetic study info of people having gone to northern most parts of Asia about 40,000 years ago. But contrary to what many people wish to think, they did not come to India as Aryans. They either vanished gradually (were they Denisovans, now extinct?) or some of them managed to cross over to North America. If we take up this idea, then it perfectly fits with whatever you have found out with Native Americans.

The women of Siberia (Uttar Kuru) of those times were pretty and were described as nymphs or apsaras, who were fond of playing near water fronts. The Hopi hairstyle resembles Indus style and also the apsaras figures carved in Indian temples! I will mail you those pictures, though I have a plan to post them in an article soon.

If it is true that these people came from Siberia, then it is not a surprise if their marriage ceremonies resemble Vedic seven step ceremony and other Vedic customs. The Devas were intensely Vedic.

The circular formations (Kivi) perhaps belong to the architecture of Viswakarma, who is identified as the school of architecture for Northern hemisphere and for Devas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishvakarman

In contrast Mayan represented the school of architecture for the southern hemisphere and asuras. At present I am working on Mayan as found in Indian sources and will post it soon in this blog.

Vishwakarma was known for making round formations in contrast to Mayan which was mostly rectangular to square formations. Vishwakarma was known for reclaiming lost lands and building cities there. (Eg Dwaraka, Ram setu) Perhaps the suspended Shiva linga of Somnath which was destroyed by Ghanzni Mohamad was a marvel of Vishwakarma school. Vishwakarma, as architect for Devas was known for making castles in air (on top of mountains, trees etc)

By that I mean to say that the school of architecture involved in Arkaim, Kivi, Bamiyan, Longmen caves and Bisti are the same. The people may have been different, but they learned and used the same techniques of architecture.

In contrast, Mayan school were adepts in making dwellings underground, in caves and making waterways below the ground level. Wherever you find such formations, you can assume that the makers had followed Mayan's scale. May be I will incorporate this in my upcoming article.

The Bisti formations remind me of Dolmens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen

Similar looking Dolmens are found in plenty in South India only in regions where people from Dwaraka / saraswathi / Indus basin migrated and settled. Perhaps an influence of Vishwakarma school. I have to look for more clues in this regard.

(cont'd)

jayasree said...

On Chinese connection to Native north American culture, I have a long theory on Sundaland of 25000 years ago and the migration of people from Sundaland to Altai and Siberia when North was warm and reverse migration to Sundaland when South was warm. I can support these claims from passages in Hindu Epic Mahabharta.

The last migration happened from North to South in this corridor. After Sundaland submerged and was shattered by volcanoes, a major part of the people shifted to India and North west India. One group from North west India further migrated to Europe and Russia. This happened in the period between 10,000 years to 7000 years BP.

Please click the link given below where my article in Tamil is posted. It is part of a series. Take a look at the 6th, 7th and 8th pics in that link. They show the routes of migration from Sundaland.

http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2012/12/121.html

The route via China can be seen. Sundaland was the centre of Hindu Puranic story of churning of the ocean with Manthra as the base. The name Mandarin to Chinese language could well be result of this name. It was the turtle island that you find in the legends of Anishinabe people of North America.

A-nishi- naabhi is a sanskrit term meaning 'not from the navel of night'

Similarly Anaasazi could well have been a sanskrit term 'a-naasa' meaning 'un-destroyed'. It could also mean 'noseless'. If any cultural symptom is there to do with nose, this meaning would fit in. Otherwise, it would mean not destroyed or people who managed to come out of danger and live on thereafter.


On Buddhism, I would like to draw your attention to the recordings of the Asiatic society which contained the original views that prevailed in India for ages until the British colonised India and destroyed old memories. Please read the contents in this link on what was held in pre-colonial India on Buddha's origins. (page 32 onwards)

http://books.google.co.in/books?id=BTYGAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA1-PA26&lpg=RA1-PA26&dq=Parasurama+in+Asiatic+Society&source=bl&ots=DX61N8zQaa&sig=1XHEVpq8BGse31LRDeGpJIRP0QU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KTCqT9zZOIzjrAfM-OjiAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

There were many Buddhas and the first Buddha was born before 1000 BC. He was a Hindu king. On page 31 of the above link you will find the 60 year names of Jupiter era in Solar years which are still in vogue in India. The Tibetans and Chinese followed the same era with names in their respective languages. This similarity is possible only if all these people Indians - Tibetans and Chinese shared a common ancestry and common culture. The Vedic society of ancient times extended from India to eastwards to China. Sundaland was pre-hostoric location of puranas on asuras such as Hiranyakasipu, Prahaladha, Virchana and Bali. Bali marked the end of civilization in Sundaland after which Vedic civilization shifted to India.

Coming to Buddha, the yogic meditation of Buddha was common place meditation in India much before Buddha. It was part of practices of Atharva Veda. I would say based on Mahabharata sources that Atharvana Veda was the oldest Veda which was formed 40000 years ago in the southern seas of Indian Ocean, in Sundaland. Mayan architecture of Vastu is a branch of Atharvana Veda. Sama veda came next, Then Yajur Veda. Rig Veda came last, by the people who entered saraswati river through Arabian seas at the end of last Ice age (13000 to 14,000 years ago)

Continuing on Buddha, the penultimate pose of Buddha before attaining Nirvana was called as Bhumi sparsa mudra. It was found depicted in a figurine in Mohanjadaro. You can see them in this article of mine.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/04/geography-geo-dynamics-and-peoples-in.html

Hendon Harris said...

Do you ever feel like you're talking into the wind and few if
any scholars are seriously considering the information you're presenting? Well I have good news! In today's edition of the Los Angeles Times (1/15/13) there is an article
titled "Study examines Aborigines' heritage". Basically
the article reports on German DNA testing that points to
the fact that people from India were traveling across the
sea to Australia and bearing children with the forefathers
of Australia's Aborigine population in the period between
5000 and 2500 years ago. That explains a lot of mysteries. It explains all the Vedic symbols that show up in India to this very day. Examples: The Devils Marbles
Ayers Rock and possibly The Marree Man as well as the
numerous stupa images there. We also know that since
they couldn't walk there that these ancient people were
clearly able to navigate the open sea!! If they could make it to Australia they could go anywhere such as North America for example. Skeptics may or may not like the results but as science unlocks these doors we
will learn the truth.

jayasree said...

Cheers Mr Harris.

This is great news for us. I for one had been writing many articles - but in Tamil - based on old Tamil Sangam literature sources - on an ancient settlements consisting of 49 places scattered over the Indian Ocean. The Indian connection to the gene pool of Australia did not go from the present day India. 4000 years ago, there were 49 scattered lands - similar to how the Polynesian islands look today) in the India ocean on the 90 degree range, the submerged range that continues from Western ghats in South India to Madagaskar and the now submerged Mascaren plateau. These regions got submerged on one fine day around 3500 years ago, as per old Tamil sources. The survivors went in all directions and what is reported from Australian genetic study is one group among them.

Let me reproduce my comment written under my Tamil article on Titicaca grass mats and Pattamadai mat. The link to that article is

http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2012/11/118.html?showComment=1358316036732#c6953346687307292744

Just take a look at the illustrations shown in that article and also other articles that follow that. You would get a picture of what I am coming to say. Anyways, I am getting all those articles translated into English to be posted in this blog.

(cont'd)

jayasree said...

My comment written today in that article:-

"I am happy to note that further support for my line of thinking has come from today's report on genetic study of the Australian people. Please read the article in this link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2262843/Migrants-India-settled-Australia-4-000-years-ago-Captain-Cooks-arrival-took-dingos-them.html

It says that Indians went to Australia 4000 years ago and suggested that the sudden rise of plant processing, stone tool technologies and microliths that appeared in Australia around that time were due to the introduction of the same by Indians at that time. The foreign researchers split their heads on how the Indians could have gone over there crossing a long route across the Indian Ocean.

BUT WE from TAMILNADU having the knowledge of TAMIL'S PAST through SANGAM TEXTS know better how this was possible. Indians did not go from today's boundary of South India. At that time (4000 years BP)Thennan Desam was in existence in the Indian Ocean! The last deluge happened 3500 years ago which I have written in several places in this series. From Adiyaarkku nallar's commentary on Silappadhikaram, we know that 7 X 7 = 49 lands of Thennan desam (old Pandyan kingdom) were submerged in that deluge! The survivors from that deluge scattered on all directions, one group having gone to Australia, another to Polyneisian islands, some to Indonesia and yet another had landed in South India along with Pandyna king and his தொல் குடி aayars / cattle breeders(Kali-th-thogai). From Polynesia, one group had gone to South American Andes and landed in Titicaca and started Inca civilization.

The Indian Ocean had 49 Tamil lands before the last deluge 3500 years ago. Going by their names (refer 59th article) almost all of them were close to sea. In other words they were scattered islands in the Indian ocean similar to how Polynesian islands look at present.

The terrible shattering effect that this deluge had on the ancient Tamil people of the 49 lands would have erased many past memories of that ancient culture. But survival modes must have definitely remained at some degree. The skills of labour must have helped them manage their lives and continue thereafter. That is why we see stone works, Lapita pottery and plant processing and mat making suddenly appearing in all the places mentioned above around 3500 to 4000 years ago. All these have resemblance to Indian / Tamil's culture. With this genetic study now proving a mix of Indians with Australians, we get an important proof of our theory which we pick up from Sangam texts and olden Tamil Commentators.

This link to Australia, Polynesia and Indonesia in the Indian ocean offered by the 49 countries of Thennan (Pandyan)Desam is known only to us, the Tamil speaking ones. That is why it is my firm opinion that only Tamils and Tamil can unlock the past history of the world. Such being the case, let Tamils not waste their time and brains by listening to or going after Dravidian Chauvinists and instead look for the roots in the Indian Ocean, and not in the Indus!"

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Harris,

Yet another study showing connection between Asians and Native Americans, but not related to Europeans.

http://www.dnaindia.com/scitech/report_dna-shows-ancient-humans-related-to-asians-and-native-americans_1791909?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

My research based on Indian Epics particularly Mahabharata is exactly this. Four major races existed in the South of equator and localized in Sundaland. They were Daityas (today's Chinese), Danavas (Europeans), Manavas (Indians and Australoids)and Asuras (Negroids).

The popular Epic characters Prahladha and his descendants Virochana and Bali were Daityas. The Mandra or Meru with which churning was done referred to the unstable Sunda plate. The Chinese language name as Mandarain was a result of this Mandara connection in Sundaland, from where the early Chinese (Daityas) migrated northward to present day China, when Sundaland was submerged. This migration must have happened gradually for a longer period of more than 10,000 years until 7,000 years ago when the present sea level was obtained.

A group of Manavas left even before the Ice age started around 17,000 years ago, perhaps in the aftermath of a fiery disturbance (as per Hindu puranas) which could have been a volcanic eruption. The story of Daksha and his famous yajna and the anger of Shiva in not offering him oblations are metaphoric narrations of increasing population and low death rate. Absence of oblations to Shiva means that there were less deaths. As per Puranic narration, Shiva destroys the subjects of Daksha by fire. Daksha was spared and he came to have the face of a Ram. This signifies (1) destruction by fire in which the survivors called as Manu escaped and moved to Arabian seas where they settled in the extended landscape west of Western ghats. Such an extension was there 14,000 years ago, thanks to low sea level.

(2)The stellar based Hindu astrology - astronomy was in place even at the time of Daksha. At the end of destruction by fire, he became Ram-faced. This means the starting of Time from Aries started then. The starting point of Aries as the mid point of oscillation of the axis must have happened then.

As per Tamil sources, the next destruction was by water and it happened in 3 periods, one before 11,500 years ago, 2nd one 7000 years ago and the 3rd one 3500 years ago.

At the time of 1st period, Indian population split as North and South Indian. Manu and others who were living in the extended land west of Western ghats had to relocate as sea levels rose and these lands were submerged. A major relocation happened through saraswathi river into North India.
We must remember that this group shared the same genetic origin with the Manavas who were still living in islands scattered in the India Ocean then. The early Tamils belonged to this region.

(cont'd)

jayasree said...

After the 2nd deluge 7000 years ago, entire Sundaland was shattered and people have moved in 2 directions. The Daityas (Chinese) moved inland northward. The danavas who were also in the same Sundaland, moved to India via Arabian sea and settled in NW India for a few 1000s of years. They further moved to Europe by 5000 years ago. The Danavas differ from daityas in the maternal side, that is, as per Hindu sources, Danu (female progenitor of Danavas) and Diti (female progenitor of Daityas) were sisters. But the Manavas (Indians) too shared the maternal gene as their female progenitor was Aditi, who was a sister of Danu and Diti, but their paternal progenitor gene (Manu) also was totally different.

At this time, the Indian ocean bound settlements continued and were completely shattered in the 3rd deluge that took place 3500 years ago. It was at that time migrations towards the American continents across the Pacific had happened. The Anishinabhe people seem to be connected with Tamils than anyone else.

Within the North American Continent I see 3 sets of people - the Hopi coming from people who crossed Berring strait at the time of Ice age. The Mayans must be distinct from them as they are Danavas - sharing European descent. The rest of the people - particularly those around the Great lakes came from Sundaland and shared a common culture with Vedic society which was what early Tamils were.

jayasree said...

Posted an article on this study

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2013/01/asians-indians-chinese-shared-same.html

Hendon Harris said...

Thank you for your ongoing deductions
from your study of the ancient Vedic
texts. Its very informative as well
as interesting. For reasons I don't
understand few western scholars are
giving any attention to these writings and their mentions of amazing scientific things including apparent supersonic flight and possible nuclear power.
The reason I am writing again today
is because I have located an article written by a university professor which compares the cultural and religious beliefs of
a pre Columbian tribal culture in North Anerica with Vedic Tantric
Buddhism. Google: "Dimensions of
Dine (Navajo) and Buddhist Traditions" by Jeannie Martinez Wells of the Univ. of New Mexico.
As you well know the Navajo and especially the Hopi tribes were the
cultures most closely affiliated with the now departed Anasazi people. These Vedic Buddhist cultural similarities in the Hopi
and Navajo tribes make the argument
of the Anasazi people being Vedic
Buddhists much more plausible. These are exciting times as more
connections are being made. Google:
"Hendon's Geoglyphs".

Hendon Harris said...

How about a book on this topic with a letter of endorsement from the Dalai Lama, the head of Vajrayana (Tibetan) Buddhism, himself. Read "Navajo and Tibetan Sacred Wisdom: The Circle of the Spirit" by Peter Gold. Isn't it
safe to assume that given the fact that His Holiness has
endorsed this book that he probably agrees with this hypothesis or at the very minimum leans in that direction.

Hendon Harris said...

Vedic cultural symbols continue to show up in North America. Personally I believe these symbols were brought here by Vedic Buddhist missionaries because Buddhists recruit others to their faith while to my knowledge this is not the case in Hinduism. The Persian Manticore is acknowledged to have been a popular symbol in ancient India. That being true then it should come as no surprise that if in fact Vedic Buddhist monks were here in North America that they would have also known of the manticore. What other explanation is there for the Persian Manticore symbol to appear in Arches
National Park Utah ancestral territory of the Anasazi
(Puebloan) people. Google: "The King Arches Natl Park".

pun-o-rama said...

Hi Jayashree,
You seem to write well thought out articles. I am as equally interested in the connectivity between ancient cultures and the common thread humanity shares from a common origin.

I have highlighted you and this article in my latest post in http://indiapundit.blogspot.com/. If you do like to be a mutual Google friend, I would much appreciate.

Thanks much and keep writing these great articles.
Regards,
Dilipan.