Update (22-1-2022)
Published my book "Mahabharata 3136 BCE: Validation of the Traditional Date"
Read the details here:
Published the hardcopy of my book critiquing Mr. Oak's book on date of Mahabharata
Details here: Jayasree Saranathan: 'Myth of “The Epoch of Arundhati” of Nilesh Nilkanth Oak' is brought out in print
Update (May 2021)
Till
date Mr. Nilesh Oak had not responded to any of my arguments given below, sent
to him three years ago..
Instead of revising his Ramayana date based on the sea level data that shows Ram Setu above the water level making Lanka land-locked in his date, Mr Oak had chosen to revise the very location of Ram Setu and Lanka!!
Have we seen any other worst distortion of history, intellectual dishonesty and corruption of the cultural treasure and ethos and of a people of vast continuum of time?
Is this not a first rate assault on Itihasa?
If
not condemned and halted, it is sure to do more damage to the Hindu culture in a very short period than
what all the assailants from outside India to the home-grown traitors had done so far in more than 1000 years.
Nilesh Oak's Lanka - where is Ram Setu??
*****
Update (December 2020)
Free download of my book "Myth of the 'Epoch of Arundhati' of Nilesh Nilkanth Oak" wherein I have validated the traditional date of Mahabharata at 3136 BCE, 35 years before the date of Kali Maha Yuga on 3101 BCE.
*****
January 12, 2018
Many have attempted to date the Mahabharata war and
Ramayana taking inputs from the two Epics. Mr Nilesh Oak (https://nileshoak.wordpress.com/
) is one among them who has dated Mahabharata war at
5561 BCE and Rama- Ravana war at 12,209 BCE.
In an exchange with him on Twitter for an open debate I sent to him the following
transcripts in a series of tweets on January 8th and 9th
of 2018.
Till now he has not replied to my arguments.
- Jayasree
***************
Date of MB is non-negotiable as it is connected with
Kali yuga that started 36 yrs after MB war. Traditional date of K.Yuga is 3102
BC, so that of MB is 3138 BC. 3102 BC is the basis of time frame all these 5000
yrs used by rishis & ancestors in Sankalpa for yajnas, puja and lakhs of
times everyday even today.
Tamil Siddha hymns also give a formula to deduce the
day, star etc of any day, anytime of this time frame of K.Yuga which is
perfectly working. To deny this date is Videshi Indology. Our attempt should be
to locate this date matching with hints given by Vyasa in MB. If we don’t get
this date, it means we haven’t understood the hints correctly.
Hints in MB:
Planetary position, Upagrahas, Gara Karana (one of Pancha angas) and
terrestrial sightings.
1.Planets:-The
reference to planets and their motion at the start of MB war pertains to
Nimittha (निमित्त )
and the results/ predictions connected with planetary motions pertain to
astrology, and not exactly about the position of those planets as per astronomy.
Therefore one must not take the reference to
planets at face value.
2. Upagrahas:-
Syama, Dhuma and Ketu mentioned are Upagrahas of planets and located in
relation to the respective planet on a particular day. They must support
planetary position.
3.
Panchanga factor:- Gara karana appearing in Chitra (5-141-9)
नूनं मह भयं कृष्ण कुरूणां समुपस्थितम
विशेषेण हि वार्ष्णेय चित्रां पीडयते गरहः
विशेषेण हि वार्ष्णेय चित्रां पीडयते गरहः
Based on all these I derived 3 water-tight features - Mars
in Sravana, Saturn in Purva phalguni and an eclipsed Amavasya in Jyeshta with
no eclipses in the preceding and successive pakshas and asked Dr N.Achar in Aug 2013 to check for the date in his
astronomy software. He got two dates 3178 BCE and 3030 BCE, of which
3178 BCE is within 40 yrs of traditional date of MB.
Anyone showing a date less than this is welcome.
Why another year also appeared for the given inputs?
Because we took only 3 factors that we are so sure about and they had existed
at another date also. But the date closer to traditional date is taken, as the
traditional date forms the basis of this research.
4. Terrestrial sightings:-
Fierce winds, colour of the sky & of sun, showers of dust, trembling of
earth, roaring noises, high waves at the seas, strange behaviour of animals etc
narrated by Vyasa as terrestrial happenings fit in
with after-effects
of a meteor or asteroid hit somewhere on earth. In this context he
speaks about Arundhati ahead of Vasistha. Immediately after that he notes that the
deer image on the moon had deviated from original position.
Movement of Arundhati and deer image on
moon are reported (seen) at the same moment. This is possible due
to some atmospheric refraction. (Today both are all right). A meteor/ comet hit
somewhere in the globe can cause this making the above mentioned sightings
possible.
Around the same time of these sightings, a comet
had hit Austria. A Cuneiform tablet prepared in 700 BC explains a
meteor-fall 5000 years ago in Austria. Read https://phys.org/news/2008-03-cuneiform-clay-tablet.html#jCp
The date is deciphered as 29th June,
3123 BC! This is 15 yrs after MB war. A dating error could have caused this
deviation. But description including the deviation of Arundhati and deer
image of the moon is possible due change in the refractive index of the
atmosphere caused to particles thrown in the air by meteor-hit.
Next catastrophe happened 36 years after Mahabharata
war when Krishna left the world. Massive waves that hit Dwaraka could have been
caused by an asteroid hit off the coast of Madagascar 5000 yrs ago. http://discovermagazine.com/2007/nov/did-a-comet-cause-the-great-flood#.UT23fVfsgZI
The chevrons around Madagascar testify this. My article here http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2013/03/meteor-hit-in-russia-some-thoughts.html
Now taking up Oak’s theory of shift in the position of Arundhati,
it can happen only under 2 circumstances. 1. If the earth reverses its
direction of rotation, the stars in the circumpolar constellation (Ursa Major)
will reverse the direction in which Arundhati will move in front of Vasistha.
This reversal is impossible.
2. When Arundhati (Alcor) comes in front of
Vashishta (Mizar) which can happen only after 375,000 yrs! Read http://stars.astro.illinois.edu/sow/mizar.html
This cannot happen in a measurable span of human civilization.
What Oak says is with reference to change in
equinoctial position or change in poles over 26000 years. The change in equinox
– showing a shift in poles can be in understood by this figure.
In the hour-glass like span, earth’s axis draws an
arc to and fro. Points A,B,C,D are four pole stars seen aligned with earth’s
axis once in 6500 years. Shown in the figure.
For a terrestrial observer on the earth, this to-and
fro movement will be 2-dimentional. See
the figure below where points B & D will be noticed at the same point in
space. After all within 6500 x 4 yrs shift, the background cosmos does not
shift much for observer.
The same is what our ancients had noticed which I
showed in another article in another thread. With axis falling in Aries- Libra,
the motion goes upto 27 degrees to and fro.
Within this the poles shift. For the naked eye
observer, Ursa Major does not undergo any change. Take a look at the figure. To
and fro oscillation for poles and Ursa Major does not cause change in position
of Arundhati for an observer. She will be seen following Vashishta due to the
same directional rotation of the earth.
Even across time of 1000s of years, Vashishtha-
Arundhati orientation to each does not change due to the gravitational coupling
between them. Ursa major may change its shape, but Mizar- Alcor orientation and
location as seen from the earth won’t
change. See this video
So what Vyasa noticed was an optical illusion caused
by change in the refractive index of the atmosphere, which in turn was caused
by a catastrophic meteor hit which is what his observations are about.
That Arundhati would not change position was noticed
as early as Skanda’s times. MB 3-229 is about how the wives of 6 out 7 sapta
rishis were disowned by their respective husbands and allotted motherhood of
Skanda. The import is Arundhati alone stayed put without changing position.
That is why she is made an icon of chastity. Such an Arundhati could have never
changed position in the past or future. That is why she is exceptional. To say she changed position in the near past was poor
understanding of why and how our ancients created certain icons like Arundhati.
Talking on Skanda we move to Ramayana date as Skanda
is worshiped in the Mantra of Indra dvaja by Manu (Brihad Samhita 43:54-55)
Means Skanda aka Muruga existed before Manu’s times. He was born in Pandyan
dynasty as ‘Ugra kumara’ or Muruga and hosted the 1st Sangam age.
The dates of 3 sangams deduced after research:
9990 BCE is the date after which Manu must have
given the Indradvaja mantra. Only after that the Ikshvaku dynasty was formed in which Rama was
born much later. Southern Madurai was
capital of 1st Sangam age (5550 BC – 9990 BC). After it submerged,
Kavaatam became the capital of 2nd Sangam age (5550 BC – 1850 BC).
This capital is mentioned in V.Ramayana.
Internal evidence of Ramayana is “Kavatam of
Pandyas!” ( कवाटम् पाण्ड्यानाम् – Valmiki
Ramayana, chapter 41 -19). Sugreeva asked vanaras to search
there. Date is anywhere between 5550 BC – 1850 BC
That Pandyans were contemporaries of Ravana is known
from Sinnamanur copper plates http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/volume_3/copper_plates_at_tirukkalar.html
In Sanskrit it is written "Dasaanan sandheepa
rakshakaara". In Tamil the same is written as "dasavathanan saarbaaka
sandhu seithum" Ravana bought peace with Pandyans – same thing told in
Raghu Vamsam of Kalidasa 6-62
The location of Pandya is mentioned as “Aalavai” –
another name for Kavaatam of the 2nd Sangam age. Read my article. http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2017/05/4-early-pandyan-history-found-in-raghu.html So Rama lived during 2nd Sangam
age of Pandyas. Definitely not before 5550 BCE.
Another internal reference: From my ppt presentation
in SI3 conference
Now coming to Oak’s date, his date of Ramayana even
pre-dates the beginning of Holocene which started around 11,500 yrs before
present (BP). It marked the end of Ice age when Himalayas was heavily snow clad.
Warmth flowed from south to north starting from 11,000 yrs to 7000 yrs. Only
gradually Himalayans glaciers started breaking. So Ganga was not yet born in
the time period he has given.
The Indian monsoon had not started at that time – a
fact confirmed in Hancock’s vegetation map of India at 10,600 BC. Look at
interior Deccan – no Dandakaranya forest. Description of rainy season of
V.Ramayana is invalid in this period.
In Oak’s scheme, Vedic civilization goes beyond
15,000 yrs ago. Look at Hancock’s map prepared based on climate, rainfall etc
of those times. Only habitable place was west coast, extended beyond present
limits and in SE Tamilnadu.
If Oak still thinks that is date is right, let him
challenge Hancock who prepared these maps.
Now coming to sea level, a bridge (Setu) could be
built only if there is water between India and Srilanka. In the beginning of
Holocene Lanka was landlocked like a peninsula – similar to Kathiawar
Peninsula. Check out these maps of Hancock based on sea-level maps of Glen
Milne. There was no need to build Setu in Oak’s date of Rama!
Till 8,900 BP there was land connection between
India and lanka
By 7000 BP sea level almost reached the current
level. Between 7700 BP to 6900 BP, sea waters completely separated Lanka from
India for the first time. Only in this period Setu could have been built.
Note this period concurs with Bhatnagar’s date, 2nd
Sangam date, and science channel date of boulders and geological studies done
there. My article http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2017/12/science-channel-on-ram-setu-as-man-made.html
Nutshell: Absence
of Ganga and presence of land-locked Lanka in Oak’s date demolish his date of Ramayana.
Plus Indian monsoons not yet started and absence of forest formation in Deccan
makes his date unrealistic. If he wants to challenge these, let him first
disprove Hancock’s maps and the sea-level data.
******
UPDATE
My book critiquing Mr Nilesh Oak's book on Mahabharata research is available for free in Kindle Unlimited. Check out this link: https://www.amazon.in/MYTH-EPOCH-ARUNDHATI-NILESH-NILKANTH-ebook/dp/B07YVFNQLD
From the first page of the book:
Two chapters of this book can be read in academia.edu
Check out
1. List of Manipulations done by Nilesh Oak to "corroborate" his date of Mahabharata:
https://www.academia.edu/40802884/LIST_OF_MANIPULATIONS_DONE_BY_NILESH_OAK_TO_CORROBORATE_HIS_DATE_OF_MAHABHARATA
2. Date of Mahabharata from Internal Evidences
(I have validated the traditional date of Mahabharata war in the year Krodhi, Shukla Dwadasi (the day after Gitopadesa) that coincided with October 23, 3136 BCE in Gregorian calendar occurring 35 years before the start of Kali Yuga when Krishna exited the world)
https://www.academia.edu/40802932/DATE_OF_MAHABHARATA_FROM_INTERNAL_EVIDENCES
Check out the label in the side bar "Nilesh Nilkanth Oak" to read all the articles I have written critiquing various issues of his date of Mahabharata and Ramayana. https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/search/label/Nilesh%20Nilkanth%20Oak
I have released 8 videos so far narrating the issues with the Mahabharata date of Mr Nilesh Oak. Part 4 and 5 are on Vedic view of equinoctial movement and the Vedic version of the stars identified with the constellation of Shishumara.
All the videos can be accessed in the following links:
UPDATE
My book critiquing Mr Nilesh Oak's book on Mahabharata research is available for free in Kindle Unlimited. Check out this link: https://www.amazon.in/MYTH-EPOCH-ARUNDHATI-NILESH-NILKANTH-ebook/dp/B07YVFNQLD
From the first page of the book:
Two chapters of this book can be read in academia.edu
Check out
1. List of Manipulations done by Nilesh Oak to "corroborate" his date of Mahabharata:
https://www.academia.edu/40802884/LIST_OF_MANIPULATIONS_DONE_BY_NILESH_OAK_TO_CORROBORATE_HIS_DATE_OF_MAHABHARATA
2. Date of Mahabharata from Internal Evidences
(I have validated the traditional date of Mahabharata war in the year Krodhi, Shukla Dwadasi (the day after Gitopadesa) that coincided with October 23, 3136 BCE in Gregorian calendar occurring 35 years before the start of Kali Yuga when Krishna exited the world)
https://www.academia.edu/40802932/DATE_OF_MAHABHARATA_FROM_INTERNAL_EVIDENCES
Check out the label in the side bar "Nilesh Nilkanth Oak" to read all the articles I have written critiquing various issues of his date of Mahabharata and Ramayana. https://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/search/label/Nilesh%20Nilkanth%20Oak
I have released 8 videos so far narrating the issues with the Mahabharata date of Mr Nilesh Oak. Part 4 and 5 are on Vedic view of equinoctial movement and the Vedic version of the stars identified with the constellation of Shishumara.
All the videos can be accessed in the following links:
Part 2: Mr Nilesh Oak's Arundhati Falsifier proved false https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8LDXDdgg5k
Part 3: Understanding seasons the Vedic Way (Part 3:
critiquing Mr Nilesh Oak's date of Mahabharata)
Part 4: Understanding equinoxes the Vedic way
Part 5: Identifying Dhruva (son of Uttanapada) in the
constellation of Shishumara.
Part 6: Mahabharata events not corroborated by Mr Nilesh Oak
Part 7: Analogies corroborated by Mr Nilesh Oak as astronomy
observations
