A significant discovery of a structure of boulders arranged in the form of a tortoise was found in an elevated region near a lake in a place called Vadamangalam near Sriperumbudur, near Chennai. The significance of this discovery is that it was dated at 1000 BCE.
(Coutesy: TOI)
The researchers are of the opinion that this could have been a memorial for the deceased "to honour the dead". But they could not find any human remains. In fact what they found was a 35 metres long and 20 metres wide structure in the shape of a tortoise. But what they explain for the shell part of the tortoise can have a different application.
They think that it was like a sarcophagus but also admit that the structure with its surrounding slabs look like a Vedic altar. They found another smaller structure like this inside which an earthen pot with a chisel was found. Some pots in this region had grains and one had some liquid. Their contention is that it was some primitive tribal people having the knowledge of astronomy. This shows that the researchers are under the influence of Western thought and Stonehenges and not tuned to Hindu practices that are continuing from an undated past.
I wish to bring to the notice of the readers and scholars that all these do offer proof for the continuing Vedic culture in this part of the country besides authenticating the information from the Tamil texts connected to this place.
First of all this is not a memorial. A tortoise is always associated with Kurma avatara and not burials. Kurma is one of the early avataras of Vishnu which is nothing but a symbolism for the way the earth is held stable. In the Kurma avatara Vishnu is seen as the basic support in the form of a giant tortoise upon which the mountain of Meru was churned. The churning is nothing but the rotation of the earth in its axis due to which the subterranean material is churned and expelled. When that happens on the land, earthquake occurs. So the worship of Kurma is intended to pray that the land on which we reside does not disturb us. This rationale still continues in Kathmandu, where one can find pillars erected on a base having the form of a tortoise. (pic below)
http://www.ecs.com.np/living_category.php?category=7&id=300
Our land of Bharat itself was thought to have been supported by Kurma. A separate chapter on Kurma chakra has been given by Varahamihira in Brihad samhita showing us that until 2000 years ago, the people held this belief and also showed it in their life where possible. The division of the land was as shown in the picture below.
The Saraswathy basin was considered as the shell region of the tortoise. The Vedics and descendants of Manu who were settled on the banks of the Saraswathy had held that Vishnu as Kurma was supporting them. That region is characterised as Madhya desa by Varahamihira. It also had Matsya desa, the land of early settlers (Manu) who were saved by Mathsya Vishnu as Fish), when their early habitat was flooded. For more details refer my old article at http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/02/who-is-dravida-mr-karunanidhi.html
Any spread of Kurma principle as the support base must have originated from this Madhya Desa where Saraswathy flowed once. This background information is needed to understand the Kurma or tortoise formation found in Vada Mangalam near Chennai. Because wherever the Saraswathy people had spread, there they have made their presence shown by the tortoise base. For example the Deepa-sthambha in many temples in the west coast region of South India where saraswathy Brahmins were settled have tortoise as the base. In other words, the deepa sthambha which signifies 'light' was built on an altar that was supported by Kurma. This fulfils the basic principle of the Kurma chakra that Kurma supports the land and gives light of hope for survival to the people.
As far as I know, tracing from Kollur, this tortoise base is seen down the South. The Kollur Mookambika temple is dedicated to Durga or the trinity of the Devis. But that it has a deepa sthamba supported by Vishnu Kurma is indicative of a belief system of the Saraswathy region that Kurma supports life.
The pillar on the right side of the above picture is the Deepa-sthamba (pillar of light) at Kollur, that is supported by Kurma. Pillars like this have a regular pattern with elephant situated on top. The elephant can be seen in the picture. The elephant might signify the Dik Gajas – Directional elephants.
Similar pillar with Kurma- base can be seen in front of Udupi Krishna. Yet another pillar I know of is found in Vadakku Nathan temple in Kerala.
The above pillar from Kerala gives an idea about how the central structure had been made. A similar structure, though bigger in size had a central box like cavity held in place by stuffing the surrounding gaps. A central structure or a pillar or a mantap must have been constructed on that. Another look at the excavated site shows how central structures could have been made like above.
To get a better idea of the central box like basement inside the shell, let us take a look from a top angle of the Kollur Kurma base.
The concept of Kurma as base for pillars of light or pillars that support houses has spread to other parts of the world even as early as the 14th century. A Buddhist temple in Korea has a similar feature that was built in 14-15 the century CE.
http://san-shin.net/Doseon-guksa.html
A similar kind of Kurma base for a pillar was installed in the year 1716 in Vietnam. (pic below)
The same concept was used in a temple in Spain which is not yet completed.
http://myitchyfingers.wordpress.com/2011/09/
The concept in all these is the same – as support base for a super structure. This idea must have travelled from India to other places - from Hindu thought to other systems of belief. Such being the continuing Thought on Kurma, one must not rush to a conclusion that the excavated Kurma in Vada Mangalam was a memorial for the dead!
Now let me come to the other major features tracing the identity of the people who had lived in the region of the excavated site. The excavated site was not an area peopled by primitive nature but an advanced culture even as early as 3500 BP. Before explaining that, let me go step by step.
First of all, the name of the place tells a background. This place is called Vadamangalam, meaning Northern Mangalam. (Sounds similar to Vadakkunathan of Kerala!!).
Mangalam was a common name for settlements of Brahmins of four Vedas. There were many Chathurvedi – Mangalams created by kings where a temple was established around which Brahmins well versed in four Vedas were settled. It also had a well planned settlement of all the other sections of the society. A town by name Vada Mangalam shows that there was a Then-Mangalam – Southern Mangalam also in the vicinity. And this Vada mangalam could in all probability be a Chathurvedi Mangalam. The famous and old Vishnu temples in and around this region shows a possibility of Vadamangalam being a Chathurvedi Mangalam.
The discovery of this structure near a pond goes well with the name Mangalam. A pond or a tank is a usual feature near a temple. The so-called 'memorials' had pots with grains and liquid below the region. This goes well with Vastu worship before starting the construction. Even now most of the houses in Tamilnadu are constructed with Vastu puja which requires the positioning of pots and vessels filled with grains, gems and other things in the pit where the basement structure has to be made. For temples, the buried items are many and elaborate. A Kurma feature suggests that a temple had existed there and the Kurma could have formed the basis for a super structure such as a pillar.
The central box structure resembling a Vedic altar confirms that this was indeed a feature associated with a temple. The chisel found in a pot buried under the tortoise takes us to the next level of understanding which takes us to a period before 1900 years.
A discernible history for this site dates back to 1900 years BP when the Cholan king Karikalan worshiped at Saththan temple in Kancheepuram, then known as Kacchi and got a weapon called "Chendu" from that deity. He went to the Himalayas after that and used this weapon to chisel the image of Tiger, the Cholan emblem on the Himalayas. This weapon that was used for chiselling the mountain rock perhaps signifies the early period when stone cutting and stone-working was happening in Tamil lands. The absence of stone inscriptions and stone based temples prior to 2000 years BP can be attributed to the yet-to-develop art of stone cutting.
The Tamil lands as at the time of Silappdhikaram (1800 years BP) did not have natives experienced in stone works and metal works. The description of Indra festival at Pumpukaar shows that there existed 2 divisions of the city with one situated near the coast and another a little inward. The coastal division was called as "Maru vur paakkam" giving the meaning that it was the region for the people of Maru vur (other places). The other division was called as Pattina-p paakkam (township) which describes the activities of the natives and the location of Indra festival. The Maru Vur paakkam was described as having foreigners, traders from outside and many artisans including those who worked on stones and metals.
This shows that stone workers were not native to Tamil lands of that time. Corroboratory information can be quoted of stone workers and gold smiths having been given some rights in the Kongu region. The rights included the right to wear slippers, construct two storeys for their houses, to paint their houses and to decorate the front part of their house with flowers. This information is used by Dravidian chauvinists saying that the earlier denial of right was a suppression of their castes. But a reading of their status as migrated people shows that they were granted many rights by the kings treating them as natives in course of time.
The information that I want to highlight is that stone cutting was new to Tamil lands. The fact that Karikalan had taken a cutting weapon from Kanchipuram shows that such weapons were available in Kanchipuram or that stone cutters were settled in that region only which was called as Thondai mandalam. Since the stone cutters were not natives of Tamil lands, it gives the opinion that people who occupied Kanchipuram and Thondai nadu about 2000 years ago were migrated people who had knowledge of cutting or chiselling stones. Of all the things that are usually found in pots excavated in many sites in India, the discovery of Chisel in a pot in a region known for cutting stones proves the story of Karikalan getting a chisel from Kanchipuram.
This region of Thondai mandalam was not a Tamil region but came under the control of Karikal Chola by driving out the then existing people called Kurumbar, according to the Wiki pedia article. I have not yet personally come across such an information in my searches, but am of the opinion that one section of the people brought from Dwaraka by sage Agasthya to Tamil lands about 3500 years ago were settled in this region. One reason for my reasoning is that this place Kanchipuram was known as 'Kacchi" and not Kanchi in early write-ups. Kacchi sounds close to "Kaccha Mandala" which was the name that Katch in Gujarat was known in olden times. This name is found mentioned in Skanda Purana. There is every chance for Kanchipuram to be called as Kacchi, if the people from Kaccha Mandala had settled there for the first time.
The Aruvalars were the artisan class that Agasthya brought from Dwaraka. There was a Aruva naadu on the west coast region near the starting point of river Kaveri. A mention of this is found in Puranauru, a sangam age text. There is a place called Aralvaay mozhi which was earlier known as Aruva mozhi in the Kanya kumari district. These are settlements of migrated labour. Inscriptions to the effect that they were given rights like natives are found in Aralvaay mozhi. Similarly Aruvalar people had settled in Kanchipuram and this happened as 3500 years ago as per evidence from literary works in Tamil.
The excavated ones dated at 3000 years ago confirm the existence of these people at that time. They were not primitives, but artisans who once had very good times in the Katch region when Indus culture was flourishing there. The term Aruvalar has the word Aruval, which means 'sickle'. Perhaps these people were engaged in cutting works using iron weapons. Their origin from Dwaraka goes well with Kurma structures also. The Kurma structure also goes well with these people, because they were also known as Kurumba or Kuruma
http://www.kurumans.com/history.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurumbar
Kuruma seems to be a corruption of Kurma in the light of excavation of Kurma structure there. These people originally from the Kutch region must have had their previous origins in Saraswathy culture with the worship of Kurma. That this region had connection to the saraswathy region people or the Velirs and others of Dwaraka is confirmed by another fact that Athondai who established his kingdom in this region called back the displaced Velirs. With them Vishnu cult, stone works (by building temples) and Vedic teaching and learning picked up in Kancheepuram by gaining fame as "Nagareshu Kanchi".The first appearance of stone temples in these regions (Pallava period) also confirm the presence of these people in this region.
To put in a nutshell, the excavation of Kurma structure confirms the settlements of Aruvalar or Kurumbar as early as 3000 years ago. They were the migrants from Dwaraka region – a mixture of artisans- who once had a good time in Indus economy. But with the submergence of Bet Dwaraka about 3500 years ago which saw a downfall of the Indus culture –which Max muller and others described as a handiwork of invading Aryans – these people had migrated to the region which later came to be called as Thondai nadu. Their core region of settlement was Kacchi. Like any migrant who would relive old memories, they have named it after Kaccha mandala from where they came. Their life and works were around stone works and perhaps cattle rearing also.
They were driven out of this region during the reign of Karikal Cholan about 1900 years ago. From then onwards their life ran into struggle as they must have faced discrimination from the natives wherever they settled.
Later on, this excavated region could have been made a Chathur Vedi Mangalam from whence the present name Vada Mangalam could have come into use. So in my opinion, further excavation near the site could throw more light on the stone cutting Aruvalar people. The presence of Chisel in a pot is indicative of their traditional job and offers the reason for why Karikala went there for getting a weapon to chisel his emblem on the rock of Himalayas. Some fine instruments for cutting stones must have been possessed by the people of Kacchi then, from whom Karikalan had got the 'Chendu'. What we are seeing in the rocks of the Kurma is a work on stone by these people.
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From
Vedic-era rock memorials found near city
D Madhavan TNN
Sriperumbudur: For thousands of years, history remained buried under boulders near a lake in Sriperumbudur. That changed recently when a team of archaeologists excavated the site after finding signs of human activity including marks that appeared to have been made by stone tools.
The archaeologists discovered that the boulders were a chain of animal-shaped memorials from the early Iron Age, dating back to around 1,000 BC. On Saturday, a team of experts from the Archaeological Survey of India visited the site and took samples as evidence .
The discovery was made on an elevated part of a lake in Vadamangalam near Sriperumbudur. The biggest of the memorials is a tortoise-shaped monument around 35 metres long and 20 metres wide.
The archaeologists also found several other memorials in animal forms and unearthed buried pots a few hundred metres from the tortoise-shaped monument. One of the buried pots contained a part of a corroded cleaver, a chisel and three smaller pots containing grains and another pot with some liquid. Pot burials, the archaeologists said, are common across ancient cultures that believed in life after death. The objects are placed with the body so the person could use them in the "next world".
"The presence of iron tools was not unexpected because last year we discovered a large iron smelting unit at Balanallur, some 4 km from here. What excited us were the animal shaped memorials," said geoarchaeologist S Rama Krishna Pisipaty. Archaeologists said the findings are the first evidence of animal-shaped memorials dating back to Iron Age in the country. Memorials from this period discovered earlier were human-shaped or stone circles. Most of the memorials are tortoise and reptile-shaped, exhibiting the influence of later Vedic period. The later Vedic period was succeeded by Early Iron Age.
The memorials could also have been built for the leader of a tribe, the archaeologists said.
As the area has been extensively used by the sand mining industry, the ASI last week erected a board declaring the site as a monument of national importance under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Sites and Remains Act of 1958 and 2010.
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From
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/the-turtle-that-survived-the-sand-miners/238304-60.html
South India | Updated Mar 13, 2012 at 11:54am IST
The turtle that survived the sand miners
At first glance, it is difficult to believe that the heap of weathered and uneven stones can be likened to a turtle, whichever way you look at it. "The aerial view will do it full justice," smiles Dr Rama Krishna Pisipaty understandingly. "Try imagining how the head and tail of a turtle look and then look at it again," he urges. Slowly, the idea sinks in and the heap does begin to look like a huge, reptilian turtle.
When Dr Pisipaty first got to this hill two years ago, on the banks of the Vadamangalam village lake, it was a mass of overgrown weeds and weathered rocks. "ASI had listed it as a potential heritage site in the late 60s but the locals and miners hadn't really treated it with any regard till last month,'" he laments. The evidence points to the Early Iron Age, which dates back almost 3,000 years.
With a team of research scholars from SCSVMV University, where Pisipaty is a professor and geoarchaeologist, he began the dig on February 15 after scouring the area and marking likely spots. "We couldn't use crowbars and shovels because the professor said that it could damage the findings inside," reveals Paneerselvam, a villager who assisted with the excavation. "After we removed the layer of red soil on top, we used small picks and hand brushed the rest out carefully. It was a lot of work," he sighs, but pride prevails.
It paid off - this is the first time in recorded history that a memorial formation shaped like a turtle has been documented, he says. The biggest finding of the five Cairn memorials (rock formation arranged without cement) is obviously the 24-metre long turtle memorial, whose shell is made up of 21 boulders stacked together.
"Inside the shell, we found a earthen sarcophagus surrounded with four haematite stones - almost like a Vedic fire altar. Around this there were flat, cut Cudappah stones laid like a platform on the bedrock," he relates. As there were no human remains found, this must have been more of a memorial than a tomb, he surmises. "In fact no human remains have been found in any of the excavated sites, which makes us believe that this must have been some memorial-ground for the deceased. Rather intriguingly, both the haematite and Cudappah stones are not native to the region. This led Pisipaty to believe that they were brought from a distance to "honour the dead" and shaped with Iron Age chisels and tools.
Evidence was found in a smaller memorial, where a chisel and some jars were unearthed. Offering bowls and sarcophagi have been shifted to the University while the stone formations alone remain. This tied in nicely with a metal workshop that he excavated in nearby Palnellur, some years ago. "This was clearly a learned civilization that had knowledge of astronomy and primitive sciences, despite looking and living like some tribal clan," he figures. All the tombs have been aligned along the North-West axis and are believed to have astronomical significance, he adds.
Walking around, there are some deep pits that look like ravines. He shrugs it off with a grimace, "There have been people mining even here for sand and stone. Almost 70 per cent of this site has been destroyed thanks to this, but there is still plenty left," he brightens up.
What if it rains? "The ASI will have to protect this turtle and the other structures, now that they are exposed to the elements," he states wistfully. "There is lots of studying to be done to date the era and understand the culture, but most of it had broken and decomposed," he says ruefully.
But this will just serve as a push for more excavation to see what else Vadamangalam holds for the diminutive archaeologist.
18 comments:
Even the English expression turning turtle turtle is relevant to the support the tortoise or kurma avatara gives! Very enriching article
This is a well-researched paper that ought to be published in a technical (archaeology) journal. The author's comment deserves serious attention: "Their contention is that it was some primitive tribal people having the knowledge of astronomy. This shows that the researchers are under the influence of Western thought and Stonehenges and not tuned to Hindu practices that are continuing from an undated past."
mkrishnaswamy@gmail.com
Thanks Dr Mukundan Subramanian, for relating the English phrase on turtle. It further strengthens the relevance of Kurma as the support base. It also shows that this concept of Kurma had been borrowed from India by others.
Thanks Mr Krishnaswamy for your comment.
I forgot to add some more information to strengthen the fact that some of the best stone workers and metal workers who were engaged in building temples on stone and preparing copper plates as Sasana for gifts were from Kancheepuram only.
The Pallavan architecture was primarily stone based as seen in Mamallapuram artifacts. Mahendravarma Pallavan boasted of having constructed a temple not like before. The temples were made of metals, wood and limestone until then, but he for the first time built entirely on stone. This became possible due to the presence of talented stone workers in his region (Kancheepuram)
Cholas picked it up from him and engaged the workers from Kancheepuram. The Thiruvalangadu copper plates of Rajendra Chola -I was made by 4 persons named Aravamurta, his brothers Ranga and Damodara and his son Purushoththama who belonged to the Ovi vamsam and were born in Kancheepuram. (I will write on Ovi in a future post)
In the final verse of the plate they have said like this:-
"(L. 518.) Four sculptors born at Kanchipura, ornaments of the race of Hovya, wrote this eulogy (prasasti) : — the high-minded Aravamurta who, though born of Krishna, was not of sullied (Krishna) conduct; his two younger brothers who bore the names Ranga and Damodara ; and (his) son, the famous Purushotama, who was the bee at the paid of the lotus feet of (god) Purushottama (i.e., Vishnu). By these four persons who were well versed in the various forms of mechanical art, who had their birth at the great (city of) Kanchipura, who were wise and who were born in the Ovi family, this edict was clearly engraved."
Source:- http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/volume_3/no_205f_aditya_ii_karikala.html
Note that the names are related to Vishnu or Krishna worshipers.
From an inscription found in the Manimangalam temple of Kancheepuram, it comes to be known that the former name of the deity of Raja gopala perumal temple was Srimad Dwarapathi or Srimad Dwarapuri deva. Unless there was a connection or affinity to Dwaraka or Krishna of Dwaraka, a deity with this name could not have been installed.
All these confirm my contention that Kancheepuram which was previously an uninhabited area came to be occupied for the first time 3500 years BP by Aruvalars / Kurumas. The excavation at Vada mangalam shows that among these people Kurumas were specialists in making pillars with Kurma base and hence got the name Kuruma which later became Kurumba.
The Aruvalas were specialists in stone cutting and carving with chisel. The discovery of Cadappah stones in the site is a surprise according to researchers because these stones are not available in the vicinity. Only those who are engaged in a profession dealing stones and stone works, will be collecting different varieties of stones and using them for appropriate places. The settlers must have been stone workers and have had a collection of stones of good varieties.
A similar notion can be read in Mahabharata where Mayan tells Krishna and Arjuna that he would go and bring back his collections of rare items for the purpose of using them in the castle that he was asked to build for the Pandavas (Maya sabha).
After Aruvalas Kancheepuram came to be occupied by Dravida Brahmins from west coast regions of Dravida (today's Maharashtra). From them the name Dravida came to be associated with Kancheepuram. Mayura sarma of Kadamba vamsa mentioned Kancheepuram as Dravida desa where he came to study Vedas.
Dr Arun Upadhyay writes :-
(1) Kurma in spaceFirst unit of creation was galaxy. As the largest block, it is called Parameşţhī. Its creative field is 10 times bigger and is called Kūrma (kurmah = we create)-It is 1018 yojanas, while galaxy is of Parārdha (1017 ) yojana, called Parama-guhā of parārdha size in Kaţhopanişad (1/3/1) and asya-vāmīya sūkta (Ŗgveda 1/164/12). Varāha of this zone is called Yajña-varāha as this is start of creation (yajña). Brahma is the whole. It has micro fluctuations at each point. Visible motion is called Karma. Action is defined in modern physics as (force x displacement). That action is which produces desired objects in cycles. The sequence of Brahma-karma-yajjña is indicated at start of Gītā, chapter 8 and is defined in Gītā (3/10,16)
स यः कूर्मः असौ स आदित्यः । (शतपथ ब्राह्मण ६/५/१/६)
तां पृथिवीं (परमेष्ठी) संक्लिश्याप्सु प्राविध्यत् तस्यै यः पराङ् रसोऽत्यक्षरत्-स कूर्मोऽभवत् । (शतपथ ब्राह्मण ६/१/१/१२)
स यत् कूर्मो नाम-एतद्वै रूपं कृत्वा प्रजापतिः प्रजा असृजत । यदसृजत-अकरोत्-तत् । यदकरोत्-तस्मात् कूर्मः। कश्यपो वै कूर्मः । तस्मादाहुः-सर्वाः प्रजाः काश्यप्यः-इति । (शतपथ ब्राह्मण ७/५/१/५)
मानेन तस्य कूर्मस्य कथयामि प्रयत्नतः ।
शङ्कोः शत सहस्राणि योजनानि वपुः स्थितम् ॥ (नरपति जयचर्या, स्वरोदय, कूर्मचक्र)
ऋतं पिबन्तौ सुकृतस्य लोके गुहां प्रविष्टौ परमे परार्धे ।
छायातपौ ब्रह्मविदो वदन्ति पञ्चाग्नयो ये च त्रिणाचिकेताः ॥ (कठोपनिषद् १/३/१)
(2) Kurma on earth-Kurma Prishtha land has hard granite rocks as base. Kurma-chakra of Brihat-samhita is division of Bharata-varsha as per natural rocks which are foundation of the land. It is useful for mining, prediction of earthquakes. Kurma region is full of minerals.
Dr Arun Upadhyay continues:-
(3) Kurma incarnation-Vamana, Kurma, Karttikeya-all were in time of king Bali (15800 BC-Mahabharata, Vana parva, 230/8-10) who is one among 7 long-lived persons. When Bali handed over 3 lokas of Indra, many asuas thought that they could have won in war and continued wars. Kurma (man as incarnation of Vishnu) suggested that fight was only for wealth and unless it was produced by cooperation, there was no point in fighting. Thus, there was cooperation among Devas and Asuras for exploration and mining. Asuras were experts in mining in hard rocks. That was deep hot part, called mouth of Vasuki. Main mining activity with Asuras was in present Jharkhand area where original Asuras from Egypt-west asia came. After king Sagar expelled Yavanas from west Bharata (Arab), they went to Greece which was named as Ionia (Herodotus).
Thus, mineral names in Greek continue which was title of Asuras comng for mining, viz.-
Munda-Mura (murrum)=iron ore
Oram-Aurum=gold
Khalko=Chalco-pyrite=copper
Hembram-Hygragrium=mercury
Topno=Tpoaz
Kandulana (ant)-extracting gold particles from rocks like grain particles from sand by ants-This has been stated as gold-digging ants by Herodotus, Megasthenes (2 chapters) Arian etc.
Minz=Mina-washing ores
Kerketta-Karkata is compass-they located excavation area on map.
Hansada-separation of mineral from ore.
Sabar-Actual digging work-Vaikhanasa or Varaha in sanskrit.
Korba to Ghatshila is land in shape of Kurma. A pillar shaped mountain range goes upto ganga river-called mandara hill. At its mouth lies Vasuki-nath who was coordination of joint operation of mining.The place of this samstha was called Santhal.
Devas were experts in extracting and refining small amount of metal from mineral. So they went to Zimbabwe for extraction of gold (Jambunada-svarna of puranas) and Mexico for silver (makshika= silver in sanskrit).
When there was again fight for sharing produce, Karttikeya attacked and captured Krauncha-dvipa. First he destroyed Kraunch mountain with a missile. North America and Rockies-both are in shape of Kraunch (Heron, flying bird). Language of his navy (Mayura-peacock, amphibian army) still survives in whole of Pacific as Maori. Attack by Karttikeya has been stated by Megasthenes that India has not captured any foreign land since 15000 years (about 15500 years before Alexander in period of Karttikeya) as it was laways self sufficient in food and metals and India was only country where all people are indiginous. 15000 years was copied my Maxmuller by dropping one zero and he fixed 1500 BC as start of Vedic civilization. There is no evidence for this date till today but Indians continue to obey it in true spirit of slavery. Then 15000 years in original text of Megasthenes was replaced by word-never.
Very interesting information from Dr Arun Upadhyay. Note the connection of metals with Kurma.
The metal workers had spread all over the world - so also the construction specialists, the Mayans.
The similarity of workmanship in metal works and buildings show that these groups were on the movement most of the times and have picked up local languages and writings in the places where they went. The import of Brahmi from Aramic variations was possible through them. The further import of Brahmi to Tamilnadu also was because of them.
In this background, the researchers are making a mistake of the century - like the mistake of sticking to Aryan invasion theory for over a century - by telling that Tamil writing was developed from Brahmi.
It is sad to see that none of the people here have any idea of tribals; the real people of prehistoric India prior to her Brahmisation/Aryanisation.
It seems for you folks India is thoroughly Hindu and nothing else exists. Do you know that the tribals in India are NOT Hindus...they have their own religion,cuture, art which are very very rich.
They have their own Gods and Goddesses and their rituals are much much different to those of the Hindus and they do not use Sanskrit mantras. They utter Mundaric or the Dravidian hymns. The Mundaric speech if you may know was the predominant speech of primitive India.
Megaliths are their archaeological heritage and if you see megalithic tortoises please donot associate them with so called Vedic Kurmas. They are very much tribal they are their Horos...they are their Killis (which the Hindus call Gotras). Turtles are every where as because the tribals culture had spread every where in the world and had influenced many European cultures and dialects.
Tribals are famous for their mathematics and astronomy millenia prior to the arrival of Brahmnical astronomers. The tribals had been practisicng observational astronomy through megaliths since thousands of years all ovewr thw world.
Many such megaliths as those of Punkri Burwadih, Rola Hanamsagar, Burjhaom, Asota can go back beyond 2000 BCE much before Aryabhatta or Bodhayana
Remember megaliths are their sasandiris and biddiris and they are not Hindu.
Tribals still make megaliths but the Hindus nor the Christian donot.
And yes for your information cows are not sacred to the tribals but bufalloes are and dogs are their best friends(dogs are however shunned by the Hindus as being dirty or mlecchaa...as they were of the tribals who had been regraded mlecchaa by the Hindus so they were target of hatred).
Hello anonymous,
You have got everything wrong. If you know to read Tamil, I would direct you to my Tamil blogs on how the tribals such as Mundas, Savaras etc came into being. You will find them in the 53rd article in my Tamil series (link given)
http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2011/05/53.html
Also read the articles before and after this in that link to know more. And read the Census Report of 1881 which tells what these so called Tribals have stated about their origins. I will be writing those details soon.
Before talking about tribals, please know that the time line in India stretches far back into nearly 10,000 years when people had lived in much advanced state than what we think of them now. The Mundas and Santlas were Surya worshipers who were friends of Haihaya king Karta veeryarjuna. That was around 6000 t0 7000 BC. At that time all the people of India were speaking a Proto-Tamil, the language which Valmiki identifies as MAnushya Bhasha (the human tongue. The language of education was sanskrit). They fought on the side of KArtha veerya and were dissipated by Parasurama. In order to escape the wrath of Parasurama they took shelter in the forests of present day Jharkhand, Orissa and Bengal. They tonsured their heads (therefore munda, mundam means tonsured head) and posed themselves as cattle rearers. But they didn't give up Saura worship and pitru worship. They continued the age old practices on Full moon day(Chirtra paurnami) Holi, Kaarthikai paurnami etc. One of their rituals is Eru, which is celebrated on Akshaya Trithiya - and is the same as "ponneru" - tying the plough for agricultural operations in Tamilnadu. How did they know the day of Akshaya Trithiya unless there had existed a time with them when they followed these astronomical issues of the Hindu fold and fixed the auspicious dates accordingly? The fact is that they gave up their previous identity as warriors (kshatriyas) during Parasurama's times and went into recluse. Some of them bounced back after some time. The list of such people can be read in that Tamil article. Some of them who had gone as far as Georgia drifted to newer life styles. I have written about this in 2 posts. Some others like Mundas went deep into the forests and remained cut off and did not attempt to come out after Parasurama's times. They became the tribals of today whose identity had been twisted by colonial writers whose main aim was to proselytize and not to decipher history
There is a similar history behind the buffallo worshippers whose origins can be traced from the second type of cattle stealers (that Tholkaapiyams says)who lived in hilly tracts to the west of Pandyan kingdom but were dispersed through the western hill range and up to Aravalli. The Mahars (form whom Maharashtra got its name) and Dhangars had the same origin that is shared with the ancient Tamils whom occupied now sunken parts of Western ghats during the 2nd Tamil sangam period. How and why buffallo became an inevitable part of their can be known from Vettuva vari in Silappadhikaram. The sacrifice of buffaloes to Durga spread from them to as afar as Nepal and Bengal. Read my article,
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2011/10/durga-puja-has-early-traces-in-tamil.html
Since they sacrificed buffaloes and removed the dead parts of the animals after the sacrifice, they came to be branded as barbaric and tribal and also as thieves by the BRITISH!!
Like this there is lot of information on the background history of Tribals who were all part of mainstream Hinduism once but slipped into obscurity due to specific reasons in course of time.
Therefore first know the Indian past before falling a prey to Christian and Marxist propaganda.
Stumbled on this article while I was searching "kurma sacrificial pit" Your article is highly informative and your knowledge is immense. May I seek your opinion on tortoise-shaped pits related to Aswamedha during Ikshvalu's time. Why the tortoise shape, why not a simple circle-shaped pit.
@Siddheshwar
Tortoise / kurma symbolises stability as known from the Puranic version of Kurma bearing the earth on its back when the milky ocean was churned. This symbolism was followed in reality too in the case of Yajnas. We come to know that a live tortoise was placed in the first layer of the fire place in the Agnicayana ritual. Later on this was modified into placing a tortoise near the homa kunda. There is even a verse in Tamil Sangam text Agananuru 361, that refers to this practice of placing a tortoise near the Homa kunda. I came to know from a Vedik that this is done in certain Homas even now.
Taittriya Samhita V-2, 8 tells about a ritual of burying a live tortoise under the Homa kunda. Such a ritual is said to lead one to swarga. In these rituals the tortoise is recognised as the Sun, the Yajna Purusha or Arunaketu (having red rays) or the creator of the cosmos. The Sanskrit term used here is ‘Kashyapa’. The Rig Vedic verse in Mandala 9-114 makes a reference to Kashyapa lifting up his voice. One interpretation is that this refers to the tortoise underneath the Homa kunda.
Based on these views, it appears that the tortoise shaped pit was what they meant by placing the tortoise underneath the Homa kunda. Nowadays and even in Agananuru verse, the practice was to keep a bowl of water with a tortoise kept near the homa kunda. Since the actual purport was to place the tortoise under the Homa kunda in the sense of Yajna Purusha / creator / Aruna ketu / bearer of the kunda, they had made the kunda in the shape of the tortoise, perhaps placed a live tortoise with mantras and then taken it out and then built up the other payers of the Homa kunda.
You may refer to Satapata Brahmana V-1, 5 and Taittriya Aranyaka I-23-25 for more details in tortoise in yajna.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. The tortoise-shaped pit called Kurma Chiti is at Nagarjunakonda as part of the Aswamedha tank. Its overall length is about 10 feet and 6 feet wide. A board states the pit was intended for sacrificing parts of horse. So it was a Homa Kunda in which horse flesh was offered to Agni?
Not sure whether this was the shape. Already an article was posted in my blog on Aswamedha by a vedik. He doesnt give this kind of description for the homa kunda. http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-ashvamedha-yajna-guest-post-by.html?m=1
The pit is tortoise shaped indeed. It is lined with red bricks, just like present day Homa Kunda. Please see pictures 7 and 8 in this article on Nagarjunakonda. Picture-7 is Kurma Chiti and picture-8 is Aswamedha tank. I'm still exploring other topics in your blog.
I saw those pics and forwarded them to the Vedic scholar Mr Ramanathan for his views. Meanwhile what is that article about and what does it say on these formations? Where are they exactly located, say, near a temple or somewhere.
Pic 9 is exciting. Similar formations are found in Harappa!! See here https://www.harappa.com/walk/index9.html
Can I know what is written for this formation in that article?
Its not possible to google translate.
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