Thursday, July 23, 2009

Did Rama rule for 11,000 years?




One of the intriguing issues of Ramayana is that it says that Rama ruled for 11,000 years. His father Dasaratha also was said to have lived for 16,000 years. Information like this makes the 'rational' one dismiss the very history of Rama.

There is nothing irrational or fictional about it if we know some basics of Time computation in olden days.


First of all, the basic life term for any man is 100 years and it is the wish of any blessing in Vedic parlance.

The blessings given by elders when one prostrates is of Vedic origin (of satya yuga). It is "Shatamaanam bhavathi shataayu: purusha:…" to invoke 100 years of life for the one so blessed. This blessing is repeated in several places in the Upanishads too.


When one performs the daily midday supplication (noon part of Sandhyavndana), the individual prays to the sun when he is in full bloom that he may be blessed to see him for a full life of nearly 100 years. ("PashyEma sharada: shatham… jIvEma sharada: shatham.. etc ) The prayer is for 100 years and this prayer also has its origin in Vedic yuga.


Brahma devan is said to live for 100 years in his time scale. Therefore 100 is the standard year duration for longevity. Since man is at a micro cosmic scale of the Cosmic god Brahma, and though man's life is shaped by the influence of each of the nine planets which runs into a total period of 120 years, this span is roughly around 100 years only.

When the maximum life span of man is expected to be 100 years, why did they say that Rama lived for 11,000 years? Did Rama live for so many years?


No. In Ramayana itself we come across a reference to a maximum life span of 100 years only.

In Sundhara khandam (sargam 34), on seeing that Hanuman has come to redeem her distress, Sita says, " yethi jivantha aanandham naram varshashathadhabhi." (If only a person were to live for a 100 years, he would sure have 'aanandham' sometime even after a 100 years.) Here 'if only a person lives for a 100 years 'make it clear that the average life span of a person in Thretha yuga (Sita's times) was not in 1000s of years- but only to a maximum of 100 years!


If so, why the talk of life of 1000s of years?

This can be interpreted in two ways – one by the way of Time (Yuga) calculation used in those days and another the philosophical way.


The Yuga calculation:-


There are 10 types of calculation of time of which the Chathur yuga calculation is one.

In Jyothisha sastra, there are certain padhathi (tradition or practice) to use the yuga.


Any Siddhanthic text will start by referring to Chathur yugas starting from Kalpa. The author of a Siddhantha will have to mention the time of his text in the broader concept of Time starting from Kalpa. This is to say that if you happen to read a text referring to Chathur yuga classification, then know that what you are reading is a Siddhnathic grantha.

Similarly any grantha on Tantra will have references to the Epoch in which it was written or about which (the epoch), the principles are given. Aryabhateeyam is a Tantra grantha, because it starts from the current Epoch, Kali yuga.

Similarly any Karana grantha will talk only about Saka varusham.

So it is all about the context in which the yugas are discussed.


Again the very term Yuga is used in various ways.

In any vedic rirual, the term yuga refers to the 5-year duration of Pancha varshathmaka yuga and not the chathur yuga.

Each year of this yuga is given a name based on several principles. (the names are Sam vatsara, Pari vatsara, Ida vatsara, Anu vatsara and Id vatsara.) This is the basic classification used in daily life. Having this as the basis, further branching out is there until Chathur maha yugas.


12 rounds of this yuga make 60 years starting from Prabhava, Vibhava.

Any classification has a twin - an ascending and descending.
So 60 + 60 = 120 years, the maximum longevity of man.
This is the basic classification used for human life.

120 X 120 makes 14,400.

14,400 with a twin makes 28,800 years which is the time taken by the Sun to complete one round around the Zodiac (in backward movement which we call precession)

15 rounds of this makes 1 unit of Chathuryuga and 150 rounds of it makes 1 chathur maha yuga.

That means 28,800 X 15 = 4,32,000 years (Kailiyuga duration)

28,800 X 150 = 43,20,000 years ( Chathur mmaha yuga)

This is how the classification goes.


The very word Yuga means twin.
In Jyothisha, even rasis are referred to as Yugma rasis. Yugma is derived from the word, Yuga which means two sided.

Anything two sided is a yuga.
The day and night - Ahoratra is a yuga.

The Ayanas (solstices) constitute a yuga.

The panchavarshathmaka yuga (5 years) make a yuga (2-1/2 years twice with an adhik masa)

In this context, there is a padhathi "Ahoreva samvatsar" It means (the first one I said) - the day-night (Ahoratra) forming a year.

(Source :- Mahabharata, Vana parva – section 52

Bheema to Yudhishtira:-
O Bharata, it is, also said by those versed in morality that one day and night is, O great prince, equal unto a full year. The Veda text also, exalted one, is often heard, signifying that a year is equivalent to a day when passed in the observance of certain difficult vows. O thou of unfading glory, if the Vedas are an authority with thee, regard thou the period of a day and something more as the equivalent of thirteen years.


Mahabharata - 3-49   


21 tathā bhārata dharmeṣu dharmajñair iha dṛśyate
     ahorātraṃ mahārāja tulyaṃ saṃvatsareṇa hi
 22 tathaiva veda vacanaṃ śrūyate nityadā vibho
     saṃvatsaro mahārāja pūrṇo bhavati kṛcchrataḥ
 23 yadi vedāḥ pramāṇaṃ te divasād ūrdhvam acyuta
     trayodaśa samāḥ kālo jñāyatāṃ pariniṣṭhitaḥ )


Every day a person is born anew with the sunrise. Coming to live to see the next sunrise is like having finished one year and starting another year.  That is the import.

If we consider the most basic classification of Ahoreva samvatsar,
each day is a samvatsar or a year.
If we say that Rama ruled for 11,000 years, according to this calculation,
he had ruled for 31 years!!


Look at Rama's life. From Sita's version in Sundhara kanda we know that Rama went on Vanavas in his 25th year.
25+ 14 years in exile = 39.
He ascended the throne on his 39th year.
If he is to have ruled for 11,000 years, then according to Ahoreva samvatsar, it comes to 31 years.

Add 31 years to 39 when he ascended the throne. 
That means he ruled till his 70th year!
(Here again the year is not what we think as 365 days.
The solar year has 360 days.
The sun travels a degree a day and completes one round of the zodiac of 360 degrees in 360 days.)

This is how we have to interpret.


While interpreting the past we have to bear in mind the age of earth and age of life for which we have surya siddhantha guidance. If we are to take the meaning as we know it on face value in our limited perception, then we will be in for wrong conclusions. Not only that, we will be also making this vast body of knowledge of Veadnta and vedanga put into ridicule.


Philosophical way of calculation:-


In Ramayana, Narada tells Valmilki
"raamo raajyam upaasitvaa " - Rama rajyam for 11,000 years.

What does this mean?

" dasha varSa sahasraaNi dasha varSa shataani ca |
raamo raajyam upaasitvaa brahma lokam prayaasyati || " (1-1-97)

97. dasha+varSa+sahasraaNi= ten, years, thousand; dasa+varsha+sataani+ca= ten, years, hundred, also; raamaH= Rama; raajyam+upaasitvaa= kingdom, on reverencing; brahma+ lokam+gamishhyati= Brahma's abode, voyages.

"On reverencing the kingdom for ten thousand years plus another one thousand years, [i.e. for a total of eleven thousand years,] Rama voyages to the abode of Brahma... [1-1-97]

Comment: In rama raajyam upaasitvaa... the word used is upaasana is not ruling by sceptre but 'reverentially idolised the kingdom...' as one would regard or treat his personal god with reverence. Rama thus reverenced his kingdom as a devotee of his subjects and this is the concept of raama raajya.


The commentary above puts the entire issue in a different perspective!!

Raama established Raama rajyam for 10,000 + 1000 years after which He left for His Abode.

Raama rajyam stands for Raama's ideals in different spheres of life and governance. Even at the time of Vali vadam it is said that since the entire earth was under Ikshvahu hold, Raama was bound to establish its dharma by slaying Vaali. It is well known that the entire land mass was not under Ikshvahu dynasty. This implies that the dharma, the ideals and the values systems which the dynasty stood for, were followed throughout the land mass. In that way, Rama rajya dharma will live for 11,000 years.


It is said at many places in the texts that Raama's story will live as long as Himalayas and the Ganga will live. Rama rajyam or Rama's memory will be there till Ganga flows. Perhaps Ganga will flow for 11,000 years after Rama's birth!! Today scientists accept that Ganga will vanish one day. We find reference to this in other olden texts too.
Rama-rajya dharma will live as long as Ganga flows in this land.





22 comments:

Niru said...

superb explanation
hats off...

Serious Follower of Wall Street said...

Jayasree,

If entire earth was under Rama's rule or Ikshvaku dynasty's rule, WHY did Rama perform the Ashwamedha Gayam ???
Isn't Ashwamedha Yagam done to expand the kingdom by either convincing or fighting the kingdoms which the horse travels!
thanks,
-mickey

jayasree said...

It is rule of Ikshvaku dharma.
Even today the States of India may have different ways of functioning. But the entire India is bound by Ram Rajya dharma.

Raghavendra said...

You are completely wrong my dear..
In satya yuga starting days, a man's life 1,00,000 years.. due to yuga dharmas, a man's life decays when time passes away..till the end of treta yuga.. a man's life became in thousands of years..Dasharatha lived up to 60,000 years.. not 16,000..there fore rama lived 11,000 years. when it comes to dwapara yuga, a man's life decayed to hundreds of years..lord kirshna lived 125 years and dharma raja lived 210 years..when time enterd to kali yuga, a man's live decayed to below 100 years..do u know 1 thing?? at the end of kali yuga, a man's life will be atmost 16 years..

Anonymous said...

I tend to agree with rahavendra. no reason, it is just convincing. though the science and modern medicine increased the average age of man (thanks to reduction in infant deaths) the life span of a man is decaying. I will not be surprised if by end of KAliyuga, the life span reduced to 16 years. By the way, Raghavendra.... can you quote references for your points, please - Ramoji

GuNNer said...

Good Discussion:

I have few doubts as to when this kaliyuga will end and, a new life starts on earth again??

jayasree said...

@ Raghavebdra, Ramoji and GuNNer,

There are many articles already written by me in this blogspot where you could find answers for your questions.

May be I can give the links to those articles.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2011/01/on-yuga-classification-and-what-causes.html

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2008/04/rama-in-treta-yuga-yuga-is-defined-on.html

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2008/03/ram-sethu-issues-on-volcanism-and-yuga.html


On when will our world cease to exist:-
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2008/04/when-will-solar-system-end-from-science.html

I request Mr GuNNEr to read them and know the yuga timings and when the change occurs for human life.

Mr Raghavendra had written about the duration of man's life in different yugas. When we read such passages we must write with caution and analyse the inner import also. I have written on that issue in the 6th part of a series I wrote on date of Rama's times which I wrote in 2004 in a yahoo group. The link is given here:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oppiliappan/message/7506

I am reproducing it below.

(cont'd)

jayasree said...

The life span of people in different yugas are said to run in thousands of years.

In his description of Jambhoo dweepa , Sanjaya says that people of Satya yuga lived for 4000 years, those of Thretha yuga for 3000 years and those of Dwapara yuga for 2000 thousand. But while talking about people of Kali yuga, he gives a mixed outlook. He says that there is no limit for the life span for the people of Kali yuga. Some are born dead and some die after birth. And there are those born to live with ‘maha satvam’ and great valour. They multiply in hundreds and thousands.



This description was given by Sanjaya after he looks at distant lands at distant time periods with Doora dhrushti.



We find here the 4:3:2 ratio with reference to the first 3 yugas and a not-too-clear vision of Kali yuga. By implication and continuity of the previous yugas, the life span in Kali yuga must be 1000 years. This makes the calculation complete as 4:3:2:1.



But going by what he says about progeny, we seem to get a clue. It is impossible for a human being to live for 1000s of years. It might be possible in a different universe with people formed of different cellular formations. But the kind of evolution of species in this earth rule out such existence. Since progeny is being talked about Kali people, it may be assumed that any particular race or generation of people will last for so many number of years. In Kali yuga there is no certainty that all people will live 1000 years long by way of their progeny. (A man is born as his son, so goes a dictum in our texts). The lineage might get cut short, is the implication.



(cont'd)

jayasree said...

Another way to look at it is that the name and fame of a person in the respective yugas will live on for so many thousands of years. Raama’s story seem to imply this. In his concluding words in the Pattabhishka chapter, Valmiki speaks of Raama ruling the world for 11,000 years. In the beginning too, Narada while narrating the story of Raama to Valmiki says like this.



“ dasha varSa sahasraaNi dasha varSa shataani ca |
raamo raajyam upaasitvaa brahma lokam prayaasyati || “ (1-1-97)

97. dasha+varSa+sahasraaNi= ten, years, thousand; dasa+varsha+sataani+ca= ten, years, hundred, also; raamaH= Rama; raajyam+upaasitvaa= kingdom, on reverencing; brahma+ lokam+gamishhyati= Brahma's abode, voyages.

"On reverencing the kingdom for ten thousand years plus another one thousand years, [i.e. for a total of eleven thousand years,] Rama voyages to the abode of Brahma... [1-1-97]

Comment: In rama raajyam upaasitvaa... the word used is upaasana is not ruling by sceptre but 'reverentially idolised the kingdom...' as one would regard or treat his personal god with reverence. Rama thus reverenced his kingdom as a devotee of his subjects and this is the concept of raama raajya.





The commentary above puts the entire issue in a different perspective!!

Raama established Raama rajyam for 10,000 + 1000 years after which He left for His Abode. Raama rajyam stands for Raama’s ideals in different spheres of life and governance. Even at the time of Vali vadam it is said that since the entire earth was under Ikshvahu hold, Raama was bound to establish its dharma by slaying Vaali. It is well known that the entire land mass was not under Ikshvahu dynasty. The implication was that the dharma, the ideals and values systems which the dynasty stood for , was followed throughout the land mass.



A similar prevalence of Raama’s ideals is bound to exist till 4098 AD. Perhaps after that, there might take place a further deterioration. It is said at many places in the texts that Raama’s story will live as long as Himalayas and the Ganga live. Perhaps the Ganga might vanish at or around 4098 AD like how the river Saraswathi of the Vedic age vanished. (There is proof now that this river did indeed exist and was the hub of growth of Vedic civilisation, perhaps in Satya yuga). The vanishing of the Ganga is possible since Bhagirathan is supposed to bring her down in Satya yuga, in the next cycle. (I am not sure about the time period). Perhaps the ganga will dry up in Thretha yuga of the night duration of the mini yuga and might get enclosed at higher levels in the Himalayas..


(cont'd)

jayasree said...

The strong indicators for believing that the life span in those days could not have been in thousands but within or around a hundred are as follows:



Ø Brahma devan is said to live for 100 years in his time scale. Therefore 100 is the standard year duration for longevity. Since man is at a micro cosmic scale of the Cosmic god Brahma, and since man’s life is shaped by the influence of each of the nine planets which runs into a total period of 120 years as calculated by sage Parashara in the Vedas and Ithihasas, this span is roughly around 100 years.



Ø The blessings given by elders when one prostrates is of Vedic origin (of satya yuga). It is (“Shatamaanam bhavathi shataayu: purusha:…”) to invoke 100 years of life for the one so blessed. This blessing is repeated in several places in the Upanishads too.



Ø When one performs the daily midday supplication, the individual prays to the sun when he is in full bloom that he may be blessed to see him for a full life of nearly 100 years. (“PashyEma sharada: shatham… jIvEma sharada: shatham.. etc ) This prayer also has its origin in Vedic yuga.



Ø We can quote an example from Ramayana itself. In Sundhara khandam (sargam 34) On seeing that Raama dhoothan has come to redeem her distress, Sita says, “ yethi jivantha aanandham naram varshashathadhabhi.” (If only a person were to live for a 100 years, he would sure have ‘aanandham’ sometime even after a 100 years.) Here ‘if only a person lives for a 100 years ‘ make it clear that the average life span of a person in Thretha yuga had not been in 1000s of years.



Ø But that it has been said so, can be understood in the way it has to be, if we look into an episode involving sages Vasishta and Vishwamithra. They once had an argument regarding which is superior - sat-sangam or years of tapas. Vasishta said it was sat-sangam while Vishwamithra said it was years of tapas or meditation. They went to meet Adhisesha who was carrying the World on his shoulder, to settle this issue. He said how he could solve this issue when he was carrying a heavy burden. For this, Vishwamithra said that he would give 16,000 years of his tapas to support the weight and did give. But the world could not be held aloft. Vasishta gave a second of satsangam and Adhisesha was relieved of the weight. But since Adhisesah continued to remain quiet, Vishwamithra asked impatiently why he was not giving his solution, for which sesha replied that reply was already given. While a second of sat-sangam was able to hold the world, 16,000 years of tapas could not!



We have our lessons in this. Counting of years rarely matter. It is about what you gather by being in the company of good people (this includes all that imparts goodness, including knowledge acquired by reading etc). What one does in a 100 year life span must be worthy of lasting for 1000s of years. That is what happened to people (sages) of Staya yuga.



At another level, what we gain in an entire life time may be had in few years’ satsangam. By sat sangam, we, in this age of Kali may gain values and knowledge that can otherwise be got in 1000 years. Such is the greatness of satsangam. Such is the implication of living for long!



But the true nature of this is something which even Maharishis may not have known. Bhagawan conveys this in BG 10-2 – “ Neither the host of gods nor the great seers know my Prabhavam.” This word, prabhavam, connotes various meanings at various levels but suffice it to say that the way of His creation at the bottom-most layer of yuga classification is something that is bound to be as ever – a mystery

Raghavendra prasad said...

@Jayashree,Anonymous...
My dear friends.. If you want proofs regarding my points refer brahmanda purana, padma purana and bhavishya purana.. there many points discussed regarding different yugas and discussion of sages...If u don't believe that, Lord Hanuman and vibheeshan are still alive. so u don't believe this also?

Rajesh Baser said...

Ms. Jayashree I posted my comments before 4 months- in the month of Aug which were written with deep study & with references from scriptures. But these commnets are not enrolled yet.... may I know the reason? kindly allow the freedom of speech. I am expecting the reply from you?

jayasree said...

@ Rajesh Baser,
Kindly resend. I don't see any comment from your name in the comment-edit page.

Anonymous said...

isnt keikeiy stupid to ask rama to go on vanvas for 14 years when he would actually live for 11000 years,she should have asked for 5000-6000 years vanvas
14 years isnt even near 1% of 11000 years

GuNNer said...

@ jayashree , Ragevendra and all

What Ragavendra said is aboslutely and cent % true. The avg age was 100000 in sat yuga, 10000 in Treta yuga, 1000 in Dwapar yuga and 100-120 in kaliyuga. Infact Kaliyuga will get further worser after the 10,000 year golden period ends as foretold by bhagavan krishna in bhagvad gita. Once the 10,000 year period ends the full force of kali would take place for the rest approx 4 lakhs years. The world will be full of adharma and attrocities and devoid of any social reformer. There wont be any krishna devotess on earth or any Mahaan spreading the spiritual consiusness among people. Forget about everything no God's name will be known to public and everyone will run for physical and materialistic pleasures in life. The life would be a nightmare on earth till the 4th quarter of kaliyuga and then Kalki bhagavan will come and destroy all the bad omens. If somebody wants proof here is a short paragraph from bhavishya purana which can be found in Kanchi kamakoti's website. See the next comment for the link and a short note of it.

GuNNer said...

link: http://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/bhavishya/bookview.php?chapnum=31

31 Kali Yuga’s second, third and fourth quarters and Avatara of Kalki
Suta Maha Muni told Shaunaka and other Munis that as Mlecchhas gained victory over the Dharmic Shaktis gradually Kali Yuga Devi was satisfied. Daityas who were stage managing the victory of Mlecchhas then constructed several ‘Jalayanas’ or Sea borne vessels to Harikhanda (China) where men were very strong as Devas intially but in course of a few years the ‘Maya Yuddha’ or the cunning and deceitful battles in which Daityas were well known the Harikhanda residents appealed to Mahendra for protection. Indra asked Vishvakarma to reinvent a ‘Yantra’ (Machine) by which persons of one part of the World would not be able to travel to another part. On receiving the hint Vishwakarma created a ‘Bhrami-Yantra’ by using which persons of one ‘Khanda’ or chunk of a Large Region could not freely travel to another ‘Khanda’ and also a kind of ‘Vatsya’ or a less potent Maha Vayu. This Vatsya would destroy Daityas, Yakshas and Piscachas and would protect the honest and Dharmic Brahmanas. This Vatsya gave shelter to all the Brahmans and other upright persons for a number of Years. This situation that enabled good persons was most unpalatable to Kali Yuga Devi and approached Daitya Raja Bali. Then Bali and Kalki Devi approached Narayana in the form of ‘Vamana’who in turn enabled a Brahmana called Kama Sharma and his wife Devahuti on the banks of Yamuna River; he blessed that this couple would give birth to Bhoga Simha and Keli Simha. These two sons would stay in a Kreedavati Nagar and would carry out the wishes of Kali Yuga Devi, especially in the task of wide-spread ‘Varna-sankara’ or destroying the Rules of ‘Varnashrama. Over two thousand years, the established Regulations made by Lord Brahma and the successive Manus would get thinner and thinner and by the Second Paada of Kali Yuga, Kali Devata would be happy to witness that the old Vedic values would be obliterated, that the Daityamaya human beings (fully soaked in Daitya activities) would be of two-and-half feet height, that their life span would be forty years maximum (as against hundred years now) and that they would be free like birds without any ‘Karmic regulations! At the end of the Kali’s second half there would neither by the institutions of marriages, nor Kingships, nor any social reformer and not even a Karma Karta! The World would be full of the progeny of Bhogi Simha and Keli Simha ane this kind of a situation devoid of customs and social norms woud prevail for one and quarter lakh years!! In the Third Quarter of Kali Yuga, the average age of human beings would be twenty six years maximum; Bhringha Muni along with his wife Saurabhi would create Kaulakalpa-named beings who would not hesitate to eat human beings/ kinnaras. These new species of Kaulakalpas would resort to beastly affairs with mothers, sisters and daughters! They would be too lustful and produce too many children and resort to affairs with co-males and animals! In the fourth phase of Kali Yuga the maximum age of humans would not exceed tewnty years and live like water-beasts and animals; hells like Tamistra and worse kinds of frightening Places of Retribution would be over-populated.

GuNNer said...

As Yama Dharma Raja found that the influx of dead Beings was assuming alarming proportions, he and Chitra Gupta approached Indra Deva and later on to Brahma Deva and the latter declared that soon enough there would be an ‘Avatar’ (Incarnation) of Vishnu Deva as Kalki Deva; he would be fully armed with ‘Kahdga’ (Long sword) whose reach would be unimaginably long and widespread as also with a ‘Kavacha’ (Body-Cover) and ‘Dhaal’or Protective Shield, mounted on a huge horse, travelling on ‘Yoga Marga’ for sixteen thousand years and would turn the entire ‘Srishti’ to ash-laden devastation! At that time, there would be a cloud burst producing the Great Annihilation of the Universe under alarming and incessant rain called ‘Pralaya’! That would be the fresh ‘Srishti’heralding the new cycle of Yugas ab initio!!

GuNNer said...

@ Jayasree and all

As Ragavendra pointed out Hanuman is alive on earth along with Lord parausrama who is also an avatar of Lord Vishnu. They both are one of the Chirangivis of Hinduism. Hanumanji can be seen in most places where Ramkatha is going on. Tulsidas the great person who composd the Great Hanuman Chalisa and who was said to be an incarnation of Valmiki could see hanuman in varnasi and it is the place where sankat mochan hanuman temple stands. Hanuman was identiied by tulsidas who was in disguise of a old man. Lord parasurama is said to be in the himalayas mediaiting and is waiting for Kalki(10th and final avatar of Lord Vishnu)which will come in the distant Kaliyuga after around 4 lakhs from now. Kaliyuga a length of 432000 years of which only 5115 years have passed till now. Kali yuga started on midnight at 00:00 of 18th Feb 3102 BC, it was 17th of feb when lord krishna left this material world to his own spiritual abode. The effects of kali were held back till bhagavan krishna left this world due to his tremendous spiritual power. Lord Parasurama will become the Guru for Lord Kalki and will instruct and teach him to observe severe penance to obtain the celestial weapon from Lord Shiva to bring about the final annihalation of the Univerese!!!

Narayanan Shanker said...

These things have no evidence, only sayings from purana, as such it cannot be relied. No other supporting evidence exists. Not tallying with any concept in science.

Narayanan Shanker said...

These have no scientific basis. All based on epic only.

GuNNer said...

@ Narayan

You can be a Nastigan to believe such things. Kaliyugam is bound to have people like you denying the very existence of God !!!! If you have even read the Bhagvad Gita with your heart and soul such Nastigam thoughts would have left you and you would have become eishwara swarup. Plz do not post such Nastigam comments here and, do not tell anything about our Rama. Science does not matter at all Kaliyugam is a maya yugam and, bound to have people not beleiving in the ultimate paramaat

_Snowflakes said...

There are only 2500 years more for the world to come to an end.