Thursday, May 30, 2013

Mina rashi verse of Y-VJ (Greek vs Vedic astrology debate)

In this post I want to show some interesting revelations contained in the so-called interpolated and un-numbered verse of Y-VJ that mentions Mina Rashi.  Mr R.Ramanathan, the Vedic scholar who continues to study Vedas and teaches Vyakarana, provides the translation of that verse.

"ye Brahaspatina bhukta meenan prabriti raashayah/

(te hrutaha) panchabihi (bhu)ta yaha Sheshaha sa Parigraha//

Meaning:-


Yee- This

brihaspatina:-  From(With) brihaspati (3rd vibhakti)

Bhukta:- Consumed, occupied, passed

Meenan Prabriti:- From Meena

Raashayah: Raashis (Plural)

panchabihi: By 5 (Again 3rd vibakti)

Bhuta exists

Yaha :which

Sheshaha :-Remaining

Sa ; That

Parigraha: Taken. 

 

On 'Te hrutaha' which was not clear in the manuscript, he says : "'hrut' seems to be a noun stem of "Heart",  but it does not make sense here".


Suppose the missing word is 'Trvrtaha' he says: "'trivrtaha' means multiply by 3 or "Make 3 times". There is "Trivrit Stoma", a stotra (Saman) sung during soma yajnas,  where 3 basic Samans are taken and are sung 3 fold, with 3 rounds. Trivrit Stoma is frequently used in many shrauta rituals and is one of the basic stoma used."


Taking Trivrit as three-fold or three times three-fold, let me apply the calculation given in the verse to the position of Jupiter, starting from Mina rashi (because that is where the counting must start according to this verse.) This verse applies at the most to 12 places of Jupiter in 12 rashis starting from Mina to Kumbha. I calculated for each of the 12 positions of Jupiter from Mina onwards. Here we must remember that though this calculation takes Mina as the pivotal rashi, the 5-year yuga begins at Kumbha rashi or Magha month. So I started the counting from Kumbha (first year of the 5-year yuga). (Solar months must have definitely been in use in VJ period, for, without them, the adjustment of intercalary months every half yuga is absurd and is not required)


When Jupiter is in Mina, counting from Mina, it is 1 multiplied by 3 and then divided by 5. This is taken as 3 only, and counting from the first year of first Yuga, that is, from  Kumbha / Magha, this comes to Mesha.


When Jupiter is in Mesha, it is 2 multiplied by 3 = 6 which is divided by 5. This gives quotient as 1 and reminder as 1. This implies 1 yuga (of 5 years) and 1 month. Counting from Kumbha rashi, this comes to Kataka. Like this if we calculate for all the 12 rashi positions of Jupiter, it comes as shown in the table below.

Jup in

No of rashis

passed from Mina

Multiplied

By  3 =

Divided

by 5 =

Q – R

Yugas – remaining

years

The remaining

Year located

at which rashi

(counting from Kumbha as the first year of the first yuga)

 

Mina

1

3

3

3 yrs

Mesha

Mesha 

2

6

1-1

1 yuga -1 yr

Kataka

Rishabha

3

9

1-4

1 yuga -4 yrs

Thula

Mithuna

4

12

2-2

2 yugas -2 yrs

Makara

Kataka

5

15

3

3 yugas

Mesha

Simha

6

18

3-3

3 yugas – 3 yrs

Kataka

Kanya

7

21

4-1

4-yugas -1 yr

Thula

Thula

8

24

4-4

4 yugas -4 yrs

Makara

Vrischika

9

27

5-2

5 yugas – 2yrs

Mesha

Dhanus

10

30

6

6 yugas

Kataka

Makara

11

33

6-3

6 yugas – 3yrs

Thula

Kumbha

12

36

7-1

7 yugas – 1 yr

Makara

 

Some observations from this calculation are

·         When Jupiter completes one round around the zodiac and appears in Kumbha – the sign that it reaches after its sign of debility, 7 yugas of the five –year yuga would be over. That means 35 years are over by then and it will be the 36th year. This year (the 36th year) sounds familiar for us. In Mahabharata, after the war was over, Gandhari curses Krishna that on the 36th year from then onwards, the Vrishnis would find destruction. Why did she specifically mention 36th year? What is that relevance of 36th year? When I exchanged some notes on this revelation with Dr Subhash Kak,  he pointed out a 36 year sattra from Panchavimsa Brahmana (PB), verse 25-7. This shows that completion of 35 years in the five year yuga (or completion of 7 yugas) has a meaning. Kuppanna sastry points out that by 4.54 yugas the Mean Sun would be ahead of Dhanishta by 30 degrees. This has to be adjusted by dropping one intercalary month after 6 yugas and another after 7 yugas. This shows that a complete adjustment will be over only after the 7 yugas or 35 years and the cycle repeats from the 36th year onwards.


·         The Y-VJ verse indicates the running year of five yuga cycle along with the completed yugas. The counting from Mina was recommended because only then the position of Jupiter will coincide with the first year of the first Yuga after 7 yugas (or 35years). This position also happens to be the sign where Jupiter emerges after debility. In this context let me point out an interesting finding from the Cassini Space probe that went near the planet Saturn. It reported that summer began in the northern hemisphere of Saturn from the time Saturn started moving from Leo. Presently sun is shining the northern most regions of Saturn. This coincides with Saturn transiting its sign of exaltation. When I read this news I was wondering whether signs of exaltation and debility for Saturn were assigned with a meaning like this (summer in north and summer in south respectively). There is no information on Jupiter on its summer in its Northern hemisphere on similar lines. I wish the scientists focus on the summer time in the northern hemisphere of Jupiter. Coming back to this write-up, the emergence of Jupiter from the sign of debility coincides with the start of the Year and the start of the first yuga in Kumbha rashi.  The above verse shows that it coincides with the start of a new cycle of yugas after completing 7 yugas. In the first year after the 7 yugas, Jupiter will be in Kumbha. Vediks conducted specific sacrifices for that occasion.

 

·         The 7 yuga cycle makes this verse of Y-VJ a relevant one and NOT an interpolation. The PB verse on 35 year cycle adds credence to this verse as belonging to or being relevant to Vedanga Jyothisha kaala. If it is assumed that the verse merely recommends division by 5, it is not required. Just by looking at the position of Jupiter one can say how many years have elapsed in a yuga. But then such a verse could only tell about 2 yugas + 2 years. In any Yuga, each year can be followed effortlessly, but to know which yuga- year was running in the 7 yuga cycle (so that the adjustment of intercalary months can be done), they needed a quick and easy reference. Such a reference is fulfilled by this verse. If the running year of the Yuga coincides with the sign with Jupiter in the corresponding sign as shown in the table (derived from the verse), they can know which yuga was running and which year of the yuga was running then. So this verse makes perfect sense and relevance in Vedanga Jyothisha.

 

·         One must know that no one dared to twist or alter or interpolate anything in texts like this. Perhaps such a trend can happen in the current times, encouraged or influenced by Westerners. Otherwise no one in the Vedic society would say that such and such a verse is an interpolation or that it was wrong. If a verse cannot be understood by us, we would say that it is due to our deficiency in understanding. We would try to probe and learn better to understand what the verse says and not reject it.

 

·         Now applying the 'Trivrit' as per Ramanathan's explanation, 3 times 36 makes 108 which is the longevity allotted in Ashtottari dasa system. Readers, kindly note that Horoscopy was there right from the time Vedas were chanted.  If at all there is anything to ask, the Vedic rishsi had asked for longevity. Jeevema sharadhas satham – was their prayer. Chandogya Upanishad talks about human life as a yajna and divided the life into 3 parts which added upto 116 – similar to the Shodasottari dasa system told by Parasara rishi.  Sage Parasara minces no word in declaring the purpose of Jyothisha sastra in Chapter 66-11 of BPHS as being that of determining the longevity.  Therefore, if not for anything else, it is for knowing one's longevity, they checked the horoscopic positions of a person. That is the reason for many systems of longevity found in Parasara's work.

 

·         Parasara's definition of Ashtottari dasa (108 year- longevity) makes it known that it is applicable to the one who is not tainted by Mleccha connection. He says that Ashtottari dasa must be applied to the one for whom Rahu is not in lagna or in Kendra or Kona to the lagna lord.  This shows absence of affliction from Rahu gets one into 108 year longevity. This is the trivrit of the Jupiter system. The one who follows the Jupiter system comes under the Northern tradition of Devas and Vedas.

 

·         Coming back to the Meena rashi verse, another important information contained in the table derived from this verse is that the four signs  of the zodiac (Mesha, Kataka, Thula and makara) that signify the Vishus and the ayanas  when in equilibrium (refer my article -5) and which also have a  use in making many divisional charts, are the signs where the yuga year will be located for the any position of Jupiter in the zodiac.

 

·         Yet another interesting observation from this table is that the 4 positions of Jupiter during the 4 Kumbha Melas in a 12-year round of Jupiter coincide with the end of complete yugas and the mid points between them.

 

·         For example, when the 7 yugas are over and the next cycle begins, Jupiter will be in Kumbha rashi. The Kumbha Mela at Haridwar takes place in this position of Jupiter which also signifies the completion of a cycle of 35 years.  It is significant to note that this Kumbha Mela coincides with Sun in Mesha rashi – the rashi that is obtained first when the calculation is begun from Mina.

 

·         Half of this 7 yuga cycle coincides with Jupiter in Simha rashi. This is the location of Jupiter when the Kumbha Mela is held at Nashik. Sun joins Jupiter in this rashi at this Kumbha Mela.

 

·         The mid point between them occurs at Rishabha and Vrsichika.  Rishabha location of Jupiter is celebrated at Prayag with sun in Makara and Vrischika location of Jupiter is celebrated at Ujjain with Sun in Mesha.

 

·         This shows that the Vedanga Jyothisha kaala tradition of importance to Jupiter in the cycle of 7 yugas (of 5 year yuga), was replaced with Kumbha Mela when that Yuga system became redundant. That Yuga system must have become redundant soon after the uttarayana slipped backwards to Sravana. Dhanishta has a place of importance in Jupiter cycle as it signified the location of reappearance of Jupiter after a conjunction with sun and after leaving its debility. Whereas that yuga system would have held relevance throughout the ascending period of uttarayana when the southern solstice (as per Veethi concept) started to shift  from Mula 3 degrees to Dhanishta –pada 2 at 20 minutes. At that maximum extent of Uttarayana,  the Northern Equinox (Vishu) will be at Krittika – pada 1 at 20 minutes. That is the maximum the oscillation goes and therefore Krittika is regarded as "fixed" in the east. Per this, the Vedanga Jyothisha had existed prior to Lagadha for a period of (54 degrees X 72) = 3888 years.

 

·        Now Uttarayana is in its downward trend. Even since the downward trend began, Vedic society had suffered. Please note that the decay of Indus- Saraswati culture coincided with the beginning of this downward trend. Attacks by Mlecchas in North West India gradually increased from that time. It was at its peak once after Uttarayana slipped south of Makara rashi.  Wise men of the Vedic fold would not go backward of Makara. So they stuck to Makar sanakaranthi for Uttarayana also and have called it Uttarayana Makar sankaranthi (please note the inscriptions I posted). The assault on Vedic society and Aryavartha by Muslims started after Uttarayana slipped south of Makara. It is continuing now in such a pace that Veda Maatha had gone into hiding. She is crying as Vyasa said – when wrong meanings are interpreted to her. This trend is likely to continue for the next 200 plus years. By the time swing starts towards North, Veda matha would come back and gain her place.

 

The current period is similar to the period when Bali was ruling the South. He was a Danava and well known for all good works and even Vedic studies. But Veda Maatha suffered under his rule for, he did not treat Vedas the way she must be treated. The Vamana avatara was a symbolism of the end of Danava misuse of Vedas. It will happen again (many Vamana avataras have happened in the past). Until then we will have to be working towards guarding our own homes.

 

We did not intrude the Mleccha culture, we did not question their beliefs and bibles. We did not boss over them and said their sacred books and culture are all wrong. We are only defending our own sacred books, our own culture and the knowledge imparted by our own ancestors. For doing this we are being branded as Fundamentalists and what not! We have to hear all this because of Time – the Kala Purusha is yet to cast his dhrishti towards north. Let us wait and keep doing our squirrel's contribution to reduce the distress to Veda Maatha. Dahrmo rakshati rakshitaha!

 

This is probably my last mail posted to everyone. Like kalyanji and Achar ji, I too wish to not hear the 'fundamental' abuse any more – not because it is directed at us but because it is directed at what we stand for. Anyway I have planned two more articles – one on Tamil sources for Mesha and Historical and archaeological analysis of Yavanas and will be preparing them in the 2nd week of June (as I am presently tied down to some academic work). I will send them to others in this mail chain.

Thanks for patient reading all along.

 

Regards,

Jayasree saranathan.

 

 

 

 

21 comments:

Aarthi Kannan said...

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to ask this question, pls excuse if it isn't. I have no basic knowledge of astronomy, but I'm very interested in learning the same(your articles are a huge inspiration). Would you kindly suggest a good book/resource for the same? Thanks!

Yajna said...

Namaste Jayasree Madam,

I think this Greek vs Vedic astronomy is pointless,since Chandogya Upanishad(dated to 800-700 BCE i.e before time of Greek invasion even according to the Aryan invasion theory) mentions about astronomy and astrology.

http://www.dharmicscriptures.org/Chandogya_withEnglish(Krishnananda).pdf


See page Number 104.It mentions BOTH "rasim" and "naksatra-vidyam".You can also check other translations online.

So it is clear that we had knowledge of astronomy even before Greeks.

Best regards,
Yajna.

Saranathan TG said...

You have mentioned in the article that after 35 years the cycle repeats itself. I understood that after 35 years the same star positions would be there after 30 years. I tried for my date of birth and star and exactly after 35 years it yielded totally different star, day, etc. Have I understood the meaning of your words wrongly? I will be grateful for clarification.

jayasree said...

Dear Yajna,

The mention of RAshi by Narada in Chandogya upanishad was already highlighted. Look at this blog by Dr Kalyanraman. As early as 7th April this was brought into the discussion.

http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2013/04/semantics-of-rasi.html

But opponents questioned the meaning of 'rashi' here and even questioned the date of Amara kosha when someone showed the meaning from that. I entered the debate after all that.

My question is what is the definition of rashi. When I explained it as a 'group' that contains mathematically arrived constituents that can be numbered on the basis of various proofs including Adi Shankara's commentary to the Rashi verse in Chandogya (part 6 of this series), they didn't bother to acknowledge it but Mr Dieter said in his mail dated May 25, 2013 as follows

//(E. g. with the rashi verses in VJ, Ms. Jayasree did not find it necessary to provide sensible translations that would have supported her interpretations. Instead she referred to the authority of Adi Shankara in a very obscure manner.)//

See how he treats Adi Shankra's authority!! Who is to judge the meaning and relevance of Rashi in that verse? Adi Shankara or Pingree - Elst - Diter group?

If you retort them, they would call you mad. Koenraad Elst excels anyone in that matter of branding us as mad.

Let me reproduce his mail sent a few hours ago after all these explanations given by us.

jayasree said...

I think it is not a breach of privacy if I reproduce the mail of Koenraad Elst as his accusation concerns all of us following Veda dharma. I want the 'mad' followers of this Mleccha to stop patronizing him.

Readers can see in this mail that he finally agrees to the fact that Vedic seers knew the planets but still harps on his pet theories for which there is no proof. My simple question raised in the course of the debate was how could someone who can follow and know stars very well, miss the planets and their positions and movements? But Vedic corpus is not on planets but on stars which were self- illuminating. Planets come under lesser deities / parivara devathas as they only reflect the light of Sun. I think you can read those questions and rationale in my 3rd article. As and when there was a necessity they had addressed to Planatary devathas.

A fine example of how any Vedic idea was used only when the context required it, is the mangal sutra that solemnize our wedding. It was not there until 1000 years ago. The mantra told at the time of tying that is a Vedic mantra. But that does not make that practice non-Vedic. It is because tying of a sutra was there in vedic system - tying it in the wrist. Rama and Sita had that, Sangam Tamils also had that. In today's wedding also that is there. But they extended it to tying around the neck in tune with needs of the time - the need being having the sutra around the neck of the bride to protect her hisband. This topic can be read in detail in my article


http://www.scribd.com/doc/12856007/Maangalya-DharaNam-Origin-and-meaning
(continued)

jayasree said...

From: koenraad.elst
Date: Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Planets in Vedic texts
To

Dear listfolk,

If some in this group had missed it, let me clarify that the Vedic seers obviously knew the planets, which are visible. Venus and Jupiter are even among the most conspicuous heavenly bodies, both by their apparent size and by their attention-drawing movements. If the planets are not mentioned in some texts, it simply proves that the seers on that occasion had other subjects on their minds, not they had managed to remain blind for such a conspicuous feature of the starry sky.

For the same reason, it is ridiculous to conclude from Homer's mentioning only a few constellations that he didn't know about the others. If we have this conversation in English, you don't conclude from this that we don't know our respective mother tongues, do you?

The weakness of the argument from silence could of course be used to argue that the silence of the complete corpus of Vedic literature on Rashi-based astrology need not prove that they were ignorant about it. Alright, but the argument from silence becomes stronger as the corpus considered becomes larger. Moreover, while all the evidence fails to prove the presence of Rashi astrology in the Vedic age, it does document an alternative scenario, viz. the genesis of Rashi-based astrology in Babylon, its development by the Greek conquerors after Alexander, and the its transmission to India. Even your case for an alternative date of Varaha Mihira (who testifies to the transmission by using a Sanskrit adaptation of the Greek names of the Rashis rather than their now-common Sanskrit translations) adds to the evidence for this scenario.

The argument that the Greeks didn't know about astrology at all bespeaks a profoundly wrong-headed nationalism and is factually totally incorrect. In the age of the internet, you can surf to all the websites giving all kinds of evidence yourself. I am not going to waste my time offering you the evidence for the obvious. Especially because some people are impervious to any evidence. I have worked in a madhouse, and I know from experience that mad people can be very very firm in their convictions, no matter what counter-evidence is offered by reality. It is this same attitude I have found on this list. It does the Hindu cause no good that its internet warriors have to draw up these imaginary walls against a reality that the outside world takes for granted.

Kind regards,

KE

jayasree said...

Rashi in Rig Veda as brought to our notice by Mr Lalit Mishra (He was the one who originally brought Mr Dieter to task on what he wrote)
The meaning is 'group' of some derived numbers.

From: Lalit Mishra
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 at 2:30 AM
Subject: Rashi in Rigveda
To

The term Rashi is very much available in Rigveda in a mathematical context, Perhape, In the last 200 Yrs it was not located by our Indologists, perhaps, God wanted to give this credit to me and I am indeed very very happy to share this great finding with you all, Pls refer to Rigvedic Mantra ( 8.96.8) that's presented below, It's notable that the count of Marutas given in Vedic lore is 49, but in this mantra, count of Marutas given is 63, It's a matter of further study that what additional 17 Marutas refers to.

Tanday brahman (19.14) says that Maruta are counts in groups, Acharya Sayana says in his commentary to this verse of Tandya Brahman that "Shaptagaa Vai Marutah" or Maruta is the group of seven.

Rigveda Mantra ( 8.96.8)

तरिः षष्टिस्त्वा मरुतो वाव्र्धाना उस्रा इव राशयो यज्ञियासः |
उप तवेमः कर्धि नो भागधेयं शुष्मं त एना हविषा विधेम ||

We can relate above Rigvedic mantra with Valmiki Ramayana's Shlokas ( 4.42.41 & 42), In my opinion, here,we get clue that Maruta was initially taken as gaseous force that moves or pulls the celestial bodies ( nakshtras and grahas) as said in samhita jyotish scriptures and going forward or in parallel, it's seen as force of air (Vyavu ) too.

विश्वेदेवाः च वसवो मरुतः च दिव ओकसः ।
आगत्य पश्चिमाम् संध्याम् मेरुम् उत्तम पर्वतम् ॥

आदित्यम् उपतिष्ठन्ति तैः च सूर्यो अभिपूजितः ।
अदृश्यः सर्व भूतानाम् अस्तम् गच्छति पर्वतम् ॥


Regards,
Lalit Mishra.

jayasree said...

On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 8:37 AM, David Frawley wrote:



Namaste Jayasree!

You raise many interesting points. There is much in the Vedas that could be explored in this regard.

Curiously I just came across a verse of the Ṛgveda VIII.95.8 to Indra.

triḥ ṣaṣṭ̣is tvā maruto vāvṛdhānạ̄ usrā iva rāśayo yajñiyiāsaḥ

This means three sixty Maruts, like rays of light (usra) in numbers (rashis).

It is highly suggestive of astrology and astronomy.

Vamadeva

jayasree said...

As a rejoinder Dr Kalyanaraman wrote:-

Fascinating. I am reproducing the two RV ricas referenced by Dr. Frawley. In RV IX.87.9, the reference to or go samūha should be a reference to the celestial light clusters. Namaskaram. kalyan
त्रि षष्टि स्त्वा मरुतो वावृधाना उस्र इव राशयो यज्ञि यासः
उप त्वेमः कृधि नो भागधेयं शुष्मं ता एना हविषा विधेम
8.096.08 These sixty-three Maruts were worthy of sacrifice nourishing your vigour like cows gathered together; we come to you, do you grant us our portion; so will we produce strength in you by this offering. [These sixty-three Maruts: trih s'as.t.ih = thrice sixty; or, sixty-three; these were the nine companies of the Maruts, each composed of seven. S'ukla Yajus. 17.81-86 enumerates six companies of seven each; Taittiri_ya Sam.hita_ 1.5.11: saptagan.a_ vai Maruta_h; another gan.a is to be sought in another s'a_kha_; or in a khila; cf. Taittiri_ya A_ran.yaka 4.24.25 for three gan.as].
उत स्म राशिं परि यासि गोनां इन्द्रेण सोम सरथं पुनानः
पूवीऱ इषो ब्रहतीऱ जीरदानो शिक्षा शचीवस तव ता उपष्टुत
9.087.09 And being purified, Soma, you pursue the herd of (stolen) cattle in the same chariot with Indra; O you who give quickly, give (us) when invoked plentiful and abundant viands, for they are your (property) O you who abound in food.

jayasree said...

Dr Kalyanaraman showed some more 'rashi' in Rig Veda:

Here are some additional ricas from Rigveda which refer
to rāśi. See the remarkable metaphor related to Maruts in X.67.6 :

4.020.08a ईक्षे॑ रा॒यः क्षय॑स्य चर्षणी॒नामु॒त व्र॒जम॑पव॒र्तासि॒ गोना॑म् ।
4.020.08c शि॒क्षा॒न॒रः स॑मि॒थेषु॑ प्र॒हावा॒न्वस्वो॑ रा॒शिम॑भिने॒तासि॒ भूरि॑म् ॥
4.020.08 You rule over the riches and the dwellings of men; you are the rescuer of the herd of cattle; you are the giver of the instruction, the smiter in battles, and the distributor of great heaps of riches.
6.055.03a रा॒यो धारा॑स्याघृणे॒ वसो॑ रा॒शिर॑जाश्व ।
6.055.03c धीव॑तोधीवत॒ः सखा॑ ॥
6.055.03 Illustrious Pu_s.an, you are a torrent of riches; you, who have a goat for your steed, are a heap of wealth; the friend of every worshipper.

10.067.06a इन्द्रो॑ व॒लं र॑क्षि॒तारं॒ दुघा॑नां क॒रेणे॑व॒ वि च॑कर्ता॒ रवे॑ण ।
10.067.06c स्वेदा॑ञ्जिभिरा॒शिर॑मि॒च्छमा॒नोऽरो॑दयत्प॒णिमा गा अ॑मुष्णात् ॥
Indra with his voice as with an (armed) hand clove Vala the defender of the kine, desirous of the mixture (of milk and Soma) he with (the Maruts), who were shining with perspiration, destroyed PaNi and liberated the cows. [Shining with perspiration: dripping ornaments, or having streaming ornaments, ksharadaabharaNaih].

jayasree said...

The term "rashi" is a generic term. It can be used where a line up or a numbering or a mathematically arrived numbers are gathered. In the context of the zodiac Rashi means a line-up of 9 padas of stars. That is what is made out in Brihat jataka verse 1-4. You can read it in part 6.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Saranathan,

The 35 year cycle is for the 7 cycles of 5-year Yuga of Jupiter cycle or Vedangha Jyothisha. It is no longer in vogue. It is not about the planetary and star position. If you look at the table I have given in that article (Meena rashi verse - http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2013/05/mina-rashi-verse-of-y-vj-greek-vs-vedic.html), it
would show that the 5-year Vedanga yuga would end on the years when Jupiter would be in particular sign of the zodiac. Those years of Jupiter are when Kumba Mela are celebrated. I showed that link in that article. Hope this clrifies. I will post this comment under that Meena rashi article.

In the comment below I will explain what that 5 year yuga means.

jayasree said...

In Vedanga Jyothisha which is one of the 6 angas of Vedas, the computation of movement of sun and moon across the stars is explained for the purpose of choosing a right time (Muhurtha) for doing yajnas. Today we have some verses of Vedanga Jyothsiha of Rig Vedas written by Lagadha rishi and some for Yajur Vedas. Rig Vedanga Jyothisha verses are repeated in Yajusha Jyothisha.

These are similar to present day computation of Panchanga which is used for deciding the right time for homas and auspicious functions. There is no role for planets in fixing muhurtha like this as we can see the same trend in today's panchangas too. But Mlecchas can not understand the difference in utilities in our various kriyas. (For Dieter, the word Kriya itself is Greek!! Because Mesha is 'Krios' in Greek. Kriya is also the name for Mesha.)

In Vedanga Jyothisha, the year begins when Uttarayana starts at Dhanishta after the conjunction of sun and moon in that star. Five years are counted from then onwards and given names like Samvatsara, anuvatsara etc. Why 5 years? It is because moon races forward and does not meet the sun at the same point (Dhanishta) after every year. Every 2 and a half years a lunar month comes extra and it is adjusted as Adhik masa. In Vedic society things are deemed in pairs - so if there is one round of 2 and a half years with adhik masa, another similar round must be counted to make the circle complete. This forms a pair - called Yugma - which means two. This word gave rise to the word 'yuga' So one yuga was equal to 5 years where 2 adjik masa would be adjusted.

There is a verse in Rig Jyothisha on adjusting the adhik masa. This concept itself has rashi concept ingrained in it. Because how do we adjust the adhika masa? If in a lunar month (between one amavasya to another amavasya), there is no solar sankramana (entry of sun into a sign) that lunar month is considered as a adhik masa. Thus though not stated, the concept of Rashi and sun's entry into rashi is there in Rig Jyoithisha. But Mlecchas wont accept it unless explicitly written in Rig Jyothisha.

In the round of 7 cycles of 5 yugas (35 years), 2 adhika masas would be there which Kuppanna sastry says was adjusted one each at the end of 6th yuga and 7th yuga.

The same concept of 5 year yuga is the basis of Jupiter cycle. You can read it in Brihat samhita as a separate chapter titled "Jupiter". 5 yugas coming 12 times make one Jupiter cycle of 60 years, for which Prabhava, Vbhava names were used. Per that cycle the reappearance (heliacal rising) of Jupiter after conjunction with Sun in Dhanishta is the first year of Prabhava. For each of the 60 years of Jupiter, mundane phalan by way of rainfall, draught and agriculture was given.

That shows the difference between utility of planets and that of stars in Vedic system. Stars signified any effect for physical, mental and spiritual purpose whereas planets are related to events. Even in phalitha jyothisha, we attribute events to planets in one's horoscope. The experience of that event in physical, mental and spiritual level is given by lagna, moon (mano karaka) and Sun (athma karaka).

However sun and moon are called as 'Grahas' because as per Parasara graha is something which moves. Since they are seen moving in the sky like planets, they are also (though sun is self illuminating)grahas.

When doing yajnas had declined, or when Vedanga jyothisha became redundant, panchangas were introduced. The 60 year names of Jupiter cycle came to apply to solar years starting from Chitthrai. Since vararuchi is associated with vakya poanchanga, I think he must have been the pioneer in creating panchangas. His date has been variously explained. That is because his must be a school of thought. But the earliest mention of Panchanga comes in Silappadhikaram of the 2nd century AD.

jayasree said...

Saranathan TG said...

You have mentioned in the article that after 35 years the cycle repeats itself. I understood that after 35 years the same star positions would be there after 30 years. I tried for my date of birth and star and exactly after 35 years it yielded totally different star, day, etc. Have I understood the meaning of your words wrongly? I will be grateful for clarification.

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Saranathan,

The 35 year cycle is for the 7 cycles of 5-year Yuga of Jupiter cycle or Vedangha Jyothisha. It is no longer in vogue. It is not about the planetary and star position. If you look at the table I have given in that article, it would show that the 5-year Vedanga yuga would end on the years when Jupiter would be in particular sign of the zodiac. Those years of Jupiter are when Kumba Mela are celebrated. I showed that link in the article.
In the comment below I will explain what that 5 year yuga means.

Yajna said...

Dear Jayasree Madam,

Good to know it is already highlighted!If it is wasn't for Adi Shankara,then India would have been a Nastika country by now!Just see how Totakacharya praises him in Totakashtakam. Also,why bring up Shankara in this argument?He is not the composer the Chandogya Upanishad,he merely wrote Bhashya of it.Narada said "I know Rasi" in Chandogya Uapnishad along with other Vidyas,it clearly refers to Zodiacs.If Narada was referring to to mathematics or other numeral related things,it could have been "Ganita" instead.

Namaste,
Yajna.

jayasree said...

//Also,why bring up Shankara in this argument?//

Adi shankara was the best arbitrar for what the word 'Rashi'in Chandogya upanishad means. Check it out in Shankara Bhashya

http://www.archive.org/stream/ChandogyaUpanishadWithShankaraBhashya-EnglishTranslationPart2/04ChandogyaUpanishadWithSankaraBhashya-English-Part2#page/n171/mode/2up

I suggest read other articles in this series to clarify your doubts.

Yajna said...

Dear Jayasree ma'am,

Thanks for that link,although i think Mathematics is known as "ganita shashtra" or "ganita vidya" in ancient India.

Yes,i am going through your posts :)
I have also gone through the scattered messages in the yahoo group,although not all of them :)

Namaste,
Yajna

Govind Kumar said...

Well written !

Raghu said...

Madam,
I thought you would be interested in this, as you have been writing about this in your blogs:
http://tamil.oneindia.in/news/2013/06/25/tamilnadu-is-there-volcano-about-100-110-km-from-chennai-177823.html
Regards,
Raghu

jayasree said...

Dear Mr Raghu,

Thanks for bringing this to the notice of readers. The news that a volcano erupted / existed under the waters off Chennai is blatantly FALSE. The ocean floor analysis (bathymetry) of Bay of Bengal has been done and several articles and images are available on net. Just google search 'Bay of Bengal bathymetry', you will get links of many credible research articles on this. You will find that the ocean floor off Chennai is almost featureless. It is just flat and smooth.

However the stretch under Sethu bridge is hot and beset with some underwater / ocean floor activity or vents. The sea near Rameswaram itself bears the name "Agni theertham" thereby signifying heat under that region. The availability of thorium in that region also signifies a smouldering heat under water in that region. The traveler's record may have meant this part of Bay of Bengal.

The ocean floor off Chennai is without features. If it is true that some eruption was felt or seen that could have happened in Nienty degree ridge on which Andaman and Nicobar islands are visible peaks above the sea level. An earthquake in that region could have been felt or felt as a tsunami in Chennai which the traveler had mis understood as an under water volcano.

I see that news item as a deliberate mis information piece by anti kudankulam lobby to create a scare on Kalpakkam plant.