Friday, August 1, 2008

The Roma connection with India!



Romas of East Europe are known as gypsies,

the wandering communities.

They are said to have their origins in India.

Their language seems to be derived from Sanskrit.

Many research and genetic studies also confirm this.

(posted at the end of this write-up)




This information reminds me of many connections to

Roma and gypsies in Hindu texts.

Roma in Sanskrit means hair or hairy.

The term Roma is inter-changeable to ‘Loma’.

(the ‘ra’ and ‘la’ are inter changeable in Sanskrit)

Lomavat’ in Sanskrit means hairy / haired / one having soft hair.

It is to be noted that the gypsies are known as

‘Lambadi’.

The connection between Roma and Lomavat – both meaning hair

makes me wonder whether the Romas –

which means those who are hairy / grow hair / have soft hair

later came to be known as Lambadis (gypsies)

They had been wanderers or had wandered out of Aryavartha.




This brings to my memory one of the earliest mention of hairy ones in Hindu texts.

The 20 th king in the lineage of Rama was Sagara.

(Rama was the 40th king in this lineage)

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/02/lineage-of-rama.html

His father was Asitha in whose times rebellion broke out for the first time

indicating the close of Krutha yuga and ushering in of Threta yuga.

To avenge for the defeat of his father

Sagara took on the three groups of enemies of his father and defeated them

(Valmiki Ramayana – 1-70

Read verse 37 in the following link.

http://www.valmikiramayan.net/bala/sarga70/bala_70_frame.htm )




It is said that Sagara exiled the three groups of people,

after stripping Kshathriya-hood from them.

He made the yavanas’ tonsured,

‘shakas’ or so-called scynthias as half- tonsured and

‘paaradas’ as shaggy haired ones.

They later took shelter in Middle east and parts of Europe.

Iran (Airan from Aryan)

and Asiriya (from Asitha) are said to be their places

where they continued to adhere to their earlier life style

but were considered as mlechas (foreigners).




This information makes me relate the Romas with paaradas,

who were made to grow hair.

(In Sanatanic Dharma growing hair was not allowed for men.

The men should periodically tonsure their head.

Followers of the 3 vedas (Rig, Yajur and Sama) used to shave their heads.

But later, on Shushruta’s advice, Yajur Vedins started to grow tuft in their head.)

It was a sort of condemnation or punishment

when Paaradas were made to grow hair.




The opinion that Paaradas were the fore fathers of the present day Romas

is strengthened by the meaning of

Roma / Loma / misplaced meaning of Loma as wanderer.

Since they were sent out of Aryavartha as a punishment

at a time when strict adherence to varna dharma and

sanatana dharma was in vogue,

they could have felt lost

and become wanderers.




In course of time, they could have started shuttling between

Bharata varsha and outside areas.

The proof of this is that there had been people of knowledge

with the name Roma attached to them

Since Paaradas were the ones with hair (roma),

let us look at their name connections.


Paarada in Sanskrit means one who is a

master, or knowledgeable or proficient

or one who counsels.

Paarada is another name for planet mercury – Budhan.

Budhan stands for Buddhi – intellect.

The Roma- related ones in the history of Bharatha varsha

were all proficient ones in their respective fields.




Romapaada was the king of Anga desa

who was a close friend of Dasaratha, Rama’s father.

He was known as Romapaada, as his feet was said to be hairy.

His son-in-law, sage Rushyashringa conducted the ‘puthra-kameshti yaga’

for the sake of king Dasaratha to beget him sons.

As a result of that yajna only, Rama and his brothers were born.

This is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayana. (1-10 to 16)




Hindu texts also speak of

sages Romasa / Lomasa, Chyavana and Yavana.

The oldest texts in astrology consider sages

Romasa / Lomasa, Chyavana and Yavana

as pioneers in astrology.

This is recorded in Kashyapa Samhita by sage Kashyapa,

in Narada samhita by sage Narada

and in Brihat Parashara Hora sastra by sage Parashara.

The antiquity of the information on sage Romasa

can be understood from Parashara who was the father of Ved Vyasa.

Since marine archeological findings have put the dwaraka

and Krishna’s period at 3000 BC,

Parashara also can be said to have lived around this time.

Since Romaka had been mentioned as ‘Jyothish pravarthaka’

(pioneer in astrology)

by Parashara,

we can safely assume that sage Romaka lived more than 5000 years ago.




Another reference to Romaka is in a Tamil text

called “Thiruvillaiyaadal puranam”

listing the 64 ‘leelas’ (the wonder acts) of Lord Shiva.

In the 28th leela on “yaanai aida patalam’,

it is mentioned that sage Romaka came to Madurai

and worshiped lord Ugra Narasimha.

This Madurai is not the Madurai of present times.

It was the Then- Madurai that was submerged more than 5000 years ago!



The proof of Romaka as a very proficient one in astrology is

known from other authors too.

For instance, the celebrated author of astrology, Varahamihira,

wrote his Pancha Siddhantika based on Romaka Siddhantha.

(This is one of the 5 books based on which he wrote this Siddhantika).

Romaka Siddhnatha no longer is available,

but only as explained in Pancha Sidhdnathika.

There is said to be another Romaka Siddhantha – a book of later times

perhaps another one of Romaka race,

which was explained by Srisena.

This is said so by Brahma Gupta

but we don’t have this Romaka Siddhantha with us today.




Varahamihira says that Lord Surya (Brahma as per interpretation)

tells Aruna that due to a curse he was born in Yavana (mlecha) sect

and taught astrology to Romaka.

Romaka wrote it as Romaka Siddhantha

which is considered to be accurate in calculations of time (maana).


The sage Chyavana is told by ancient Rishis as one of the pioneers of astrology.

Interestingly, the sage who gave shelter to Asitha’s wives

and grew up Sagara (Rama’s ancestor)

was also known as ‘Chyavana’.

The Chyavana Siddhnatha had existed once and widely used by many.

But it is no longer with us.

We come to know of from the references in ‘Muhurtha Chinthamani’.




The Yavanas (Greeks) are another type of people, exiled by Sagara.

The Yavanas have contributed a lot to astrology and astronomy.

Varahamihira is said to have used 40 foreign words, mostly from

Yavana siddhantha. (eg, hora, drekkana, trikona, kantaka, vesi, vasi etc)

But researchers are of the opinion

that these words were actually Sanskrit ones

but used by yavanas.

Since Varamhamihira quoted from Yavana texts,

a wrong impression had come that

Yavanas were the pioneers of those information / words.

But it is not so.

The originals can be traced to Sanskrit and Sanskrit texts only.




From these information available in astrology texts,

we can deduce that Romaka was one of the oldest seers,

who possessed the wisdom of this land.

But he belonged to mlecha (foreign) land of Roma or Yavana.

Since in those days, naming was done on the basis of some characteristic of the person,

Romaka can be said to have grown hair / never cut hair in his life

or had been wandering all his life.




But what can be said for sure is that

Romaka or people of his mlecha region

had migrated out of Bharatha varsha very long ago,

even before Rama’s times.


More inputs on this are welcome.




-jayasree




*********************************************************



From

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roma_India/message/896


“There is an estimated population of at least 15 million Romas worldwide. The largest population of Romas is found in the Balkan peninsula while a sizeable population exists in the Americas, the former Soviet Union, the Middle East and North Africa.



Both linguistic evidence and genetic information have confirmed the Indian origin of the Romas. In 1782, Johann Christian Christoph Rudiger published his research that pointed out the relationship between the Romani language and Hindustani. Subsequent studies have supported the hypothesis that Romani shared a common origin with the Indo-Aryan languages of Northern India.



Further evidence for the Indian origin of the Romas came in the late 1990s when it was discovered that Roma populations carried large frequencies of particular Y chromosomes (inherited paternally) and mitochondrial DNA (inherited maternally) that otherwise exist only in populations from South Asia.



While the exact cause of the Roma migration from India has not yet been established, the most probable conclusion is that the Romas were part of the military in northern India. When there were repeated raids by Mahmud of Ghazni and these soldiers were defeated, they moved West with their families into the Byzantine empire.



Banjaras, the Indian counterparts of the Romas, too are Gypsies and number around 2, 274,000. They too maintain that many of their ancestors left India through the Himalayas and never returned.



Many historians believe that the Muslim conquerors of northern India took the Roma as slaves and marched them home over the difficult terrain of Central Asia, taking a heavy toll on them and consequently giving rise to naming of mountains such as Hindu Kush (slaughter of Hindus). Mahmud of Ghazni reportedly took 500,000 prisoners during his invasion of Punjab and Sindh.



There are also historians who hold the view that Romas were originally low-caste Hindus recruited into an army of mercenaries, granted warrior caste status and sent westward to resist Islamic military expansion.



Though most of the Romas outside India have converted either to Christianity or Islam, their social behaviour even today is strictly regulated by Hindu purity laws.”



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roma_India/message/829


Now if you personally see and live with Roma in East european countries you will see that their language romani contains large number of words from Punjabi & Rajasthani. More over their life style, costumes, customs and behavior resemble to Punjabis and Rajasthanis. Celebrating marriages with drinking of liquors, dances, music in the same manner we still do in Punjab and Rajasthan. Dr. Vania De Gila Koknovaski a gypsy scholar from France did a scientific research under the Unesco about 30-40 years back. He stayed in north india for several years, took several thousand blood samples from Rajasthan, Delhi, Punjab and Kashmere
and also of Roma in europe. he also did work on languages of the north india and matched with romani language. this study acknowledged and published by Unesco is available in French at Unesco office in Paris.


His research also came to conclusion that Roma were mostly Rajputs (the warriors) & Banjaras (Dance/music people) and they speak Rajasthani and punjabi. Similarly the research of Dr. W. R. Rishi also says the same.


I have read some romani poetry of Lilyana Kovacheva (Bulgaria) and Bajram Haliti (Serbia). I found several Punjabi & Rajasthani words in their poems.
so the Roma were definitely from north india comprising Punjab, Haryana, Delhi, Rajasthan and little bit Gujarat (AND NOT FROM KANAUJ).
And they left India at their own or under forced conditions in phases.


We need some face to face debates on this topic.


Dev Bhardwaj
# 3437 Sector 46-C
CHANDIGARH-160 047 (India)
Cell:Ph.++91-98728-23437

History of Romas




http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Roma_India/message/895




Opinion of the Editor: The motivation on repatriation of Roma people to India is an internal matter of Roma communities.


Any support for realization of this goal should come from the ones who are positive toward Roma, but not from the ones,


who see us as their misfortune and happy to erase any marks of our life in Europe or elsewhere.


Valery Novoselsky,

Editor of Roma Virtual Network.


__________________________________



Far-right party wants to relocate Roma to India


By ČTK

31 July 2008


http://www.praguemonitor.com/en/390/czech_national_news/26167/




Prague, July 30 (CTK) - The Czech National Party wants to succeed in the general elections in 2010 with radical anti-Romany rhetoric formulated in a 150-page study called "The Final Solution to the Gipsy Issue in the Czech Lands" that it will present in a month, Lidove noviny (LN) reported Wednesday.


The name evokes Nazi Germany and its final solution to the Jewish issue, but the nationalists claim they do no want to kill Romanies, but that they want to buy land in India and to relocate Romanies there, LN writes.


The team of the study authors is headed by party member Jiri Gaudin and party chairwoman Petra Edelmannova is also a member, according to party spokesman Pavel Sedlacek, LN writes.


The team was allegedly assisted by a few experts from "the academy environment," who, however, request anonymity, LN writes.


Ivan Vesely, chairman of the Romany association Dzeno, told LN that Romanies "have lived here for 500 years and we are still considered foreigners."


Sedlacek told LN the study looks at the Romany issue in a "comprehensive way - where it originated and why no one has as yet solved it."


He said the study concludes that repatriation is the sole possible solution after all other attempts to cope with the issue have failed.


"It must be solved on an all-European basis, land must be bought in India and the people must be given the opportunity to live on their land and according to their own ideas," LN quotes from the study.


Sedlacek said the word "final" that is connected with the study does not mean that the party would like to exterminate the Romanies, but because the matter should at last be tackled.


Miroslav Mares, expert in extremism, told LN that he thinks the nationalists will fail in the elections.


"The Romany issue is not that strong. According to public opinion polls strong anti-Romany prejudices do exist in society, but (Miroslav) Sladek who based his election campaign on anti-Romany rhetoric in 1998, failed," Mares said.


Sladek was then chairman of the extreme right Association for the Republic-Republican Party of Czechoslovakia (SPR-RSC).


This story is from the Czech News Agency (ČTK).


Wikipedia article on Romas:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people





7 comments:

Krishna said...

Hi...good work and very interesting topics and information...I was some such infomatic website where i can find many images of my favorite god ... Hindu Temples India

Hindu Marriages In India said...

Great research and good write up on the roma connection!

۞ जयरामकृष्णन्हरी ۞ ஜெயசத்குரு ۞ ராதேகிருஷ்ணா said...

Per my study on Western world and their Indian connection, there is a lot due to the after math of the Mahabharatha war.
Ramashesan or Balarama didnt participate in the Mahabharatha war due to two reasons. Brothers Krishna and RamaShesha internally divided the world into two halves and to the surpriseing factor the line they drew to divide their rule is still the same line which divides the west from east. The line is along the River Tigres in Iraq up untill Moscow and down.(however we cannot forget the pole shift after the Mahabharatha war, leading to change in spin of rotation of earth) After the Mahabharatha war It was Aswatama who took the sons of Duryodhana and Dussasana away from eastern world in to the western world which was ruled by Rama or Ramashesa. Perhaps its known reason that Balarama didnt participate in the Mahabharatha war as Duryodana was his very own sisya. Ramashesa helped sons of Duryodhana and Dussasana to be in his part of kindgom. Since that day there is a ever flowing vengence in the heart of western community to control the eastern world. which they acheived in last 500 years. Ultimatly destroying lot of the old things.

These sons formed smaller kingdoms and were fighting over each oher over period to rule one another. Untill they came to concenses to united to conquer the world.

Ramashesa's western empire had lot of extension in Egypy with the Ramses kings, Mayan's kings or the Quarachiqoal or the Dragon Serpent, was directly linked with RamaShesha. Same line can be drawn to the dragon workship in China.

China was ruled by Narakasura who was slayed down by Krishna. This is a long story and we all know about tat.

I want to know if there is a exclusive scripture which details the life of Balarama, just like Srimad Bhagavatham detailing life of Krishna.

jayasree said...

Thanks Jayarama krishna,

Here is a link to Chinese connection.
http://palani.org/bhogar-biography.htm

Bhoganathar, the Siddha purusha was said to have gone to China and spread what later became Taoism. His Chinese disciple was brought to South India who came to be called as PulippaNi Chitthar.
Bhoga had made contributions to Mayans too.

Peter Ginahfjhd said...

Roma Gypsies are from Samaria (North Israel ) they are mixed Jews and Elamites! Also Yadava people and Brahmins are also from Chaldea and Elam ! Elamites came to Samaria (today Palestine) in 724BC. Thy mixed with Jews and became Gypsies ! That Ydna in Gypsies are in fact Elamite also Gypsies have Levite Ydna ! Which is prove Israelite origin! Samaria was decline in 529AD and Samarians were sold to slavery to persians army and moved to north India in Kashmiri,Sindh region and Multan! Romaka is astrology from ancient Elam !!!! Not from India! Elamites (Yadava ) and Chaldeans (Brahmins)came to India in 1500 BC and enslaved Harapeans (Dalit or Sudra people) ! They brought Veda religion and more!

Peter Ginahfjhd said...

Roma Gypsies now do dna test result came Jews (Levite tribe ) + south India which is Dravda Tamil people from ancient Elam ! That's from father side by mother also Roma Gypsies have Jewish DNA !Roma lived in India or better Pakistan as slaves for Persian army till Arab destroyed all Persian colonies in India! Samaria was decline and destroyed also by Arabs !

jayasree said...

Please give the links to DNA research of Roma Gypsies.